Alternate soils for azaleas?

@Wilson His price is pretty fair, i don't remember how much i paid for what i got since i bought a bunch of other stuff too but it was pretty good price wise. he also has haydite and usually something else but lava and haydite are his go to. and yeah he doesn't advertise online much but hes really good at responding to emails super quick which is nice.

Bonsai Nut said:

Pumice 50%, small bark and peat moss 50%.

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I found it interesting as the Fafard I get contains peat moss. Also, found it contains different things depending on where one is located. Label off a bag in the back of the pickup -



Grimmy

So is it sold by volume, or weight?
Contains compost and other stuff. Guess you have to open the bag if you're not in CA or GA
CW

CWTurner said:

So is it sold by volume, or weight? Contains compost and other stuff.

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It is sold in a 1 cubic foot bag, the weight is 20 pounds. It is far drier then others I have purchased, at best I consider it slightly damp. The stuff we get here contains as you said "stuff" but I find it always is a rich black composted mix with little to no large pieces of crap like wood. I have also never found as much as a pebble in it.

Grimmy

bonsaijack has the monto clay in 1/4" size 5.5 ph, 39 bucks shipped for 3 gallons.

I use the same mostly inorganic soil for mine, and fertilize with and "acid lovers" fert.
No problems so far....but from what I read, some acidic soil components are beneficial.

I am now starting the second phase of a 4 year study of 4 different soil mixes for Satsuki. We have high pH water with high hardness and not much natural rainfall. The two most successful soils to date in the study have been a kanuma/peat/cocoa chip mix and a perlite/peat/redwood compost mix(as specified by Ota/Naka). I would like to modify the watering (or maybe something else) for the plants in the 100% kanuma for the next 2 years as they have done the worst. Any suggestions welcomed. In the past I have not been very successful in using pure kanuma, but these results have surprised me.
Glenn

bunjin said:

In the past I have not been very successful in using pure kanuma, but these results have surprised me.

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I have tried Kanuma in the past with less then good results too. The only thing I can figure happened is the type I used was probably to course not allowing for fine root growth very good, really though not certain and stopped trying.
I find here a loam type mix very fine works best. I use Fafard Topsoil(finely ground jet black compost), Course Silica Sand, and Perlite in equal parts. I then add a healthy amount of Canadian Peat. It drains great and still retains just enough moisture to keep Azaleas(all types). Using the peat I never bothered to test PH as I am certain it is ok. Not Scientific but hey it works
All of mine are grown in filtered sun and are among the few plants I use normal liquid fertilizer doses on. Again, mileage varies by location, available sun, fertilizer, and watering restrictions. You mentioned water as a suspect but honest as @Walter Pall has stated - "If you can drink it your plants can too". I find this to be true with ANY well draining substrate which I hold far more important then water quality.

Grimmy

@Handsome John you might be interested to read in this thread https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/lumpy-dougy.11870/page-3#post-464514 about sea soil, which is Canada produced, as the organic part of your substrate.
I refer to post #52

ghues said:

... ...Yes sifted SeaSoil (1/16"- 1/4") is the main organic component that a lot of us here use especially for our conifers... ...
In our other house we'd get a truck load (every couple of years) and apply about 2" to our landscape beds and the perennials, shrubs and especially azaleas loved the stuff.

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Perlite n peat

Bonsai Nut said:

This is what I use

View attachment 132267

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Hey Bonsai nut......the bark doesn't seem to be very decomposed, i.e. Fairly fresh?
Cheers
G.

GrimLore said:

I have tried Kanuma in the past with less then good results too. The only thing I can figure happened is the type I used was probably to course not allowing for fine root growth very good, really though not certain and stopped trying.
I find here a loam type mix very fine works best. I use Fafard Topsoil(finely ground jet black compost), Course Silica Sand, and Perlite in equal parts. I then add a healthy amount of Canadian Peat. It drains great and still retains just enough moisture to keep Azaleas(all types). Using the peat I never bothered to test PH as I am certain it is ok. Not Scientific but hey it works
All of mine are grown in filtered sun and are among the few plants I use normal liquid fertilizer doses on. Again, mileage varies by location, available sun, fertilizer, and watering restrictions. You mentioned water as a suspect but honest as @Walter Pall has stated - "If you can drink it your plants can too". I find this to be true with ANY well draining substrate which I hold far more important then water quality.

Grimmy

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Hey there Grimmy........good ol' Canadian Peat.....ak peat moss.......
A FYI,.......spent decades watching the peat from Alberta......the upper layers of the "swamp" when they start working it gives a different higher quality grade, for as they go deeper the layers get more dense......so
The forest seedling nurseries I worked with were very particular to get the right grade (not too dense) as root rot was a curse with the denser grades.......I think this is why one should have a great drainage mix with the peat.
G.

I have two different varieties of rhododendron and half a dozen different varieties of azaleas, including satsuki in pots for 3+ years now; most 6 to 8. All do just fine in nothing but Turface MVP (high fired clay). I find that all need to be kept in fairly deep pots (about 3 inches or more). Shallow pots have created trouble for me.

bunjin said:

I am now starting the second phase of a 4 year study of 4 different soil mixes for Satsuki. We have high pH water with high hardness and not much natural rainfall. The two most successful soils to date in the study have been a kanuma/peat/cocoa chip mix and a perlite/peat/redwood compost mix(as specified by Ota/Naka). I would like to modify the watering (or maybe something else) for the plants in the 100% kanuma for the next 2 years as they have done the worst. Any suggestions welcomed. In the past I have not been very successful in using pure kanuma, but these results have surprised me.
Glenn

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I also have hard water with total alkalinity on the higher end and no summer rainfall. But I've been resistant to treating the water because it comes from 3 taps and it doesn't appear to impact most of my trees. But it has been interesting to watch my nursery potted azaleas from Nuccio's in Pasadena thrive while at the same time watching the one that I repotted from a diferent source decline into chlorosis. It only took one season in a bonsai pot of pumice, bark, kanuma mix to get cholorosis. I repotted to a larger mesh basket and added some organics from a fast draining potting soil. This helped a little, but I believe the mesh aeration is actually bad for azaleas when using my water because it allows the mix to dry to fast resulting in mineral buildup. Keeping the mix wet seems to help.

It wasn't until a nursery potted karume died from drowning in this winter's rain that I realized that the Nuccio's plants were grown in almost 100% peat. The acidity of the peat appears to counteract the high alkalinity and carbonates/bicarbonates of my water. This year's repots went back into nursery cans with mixes of varying amounts of peat, bark, and pumice. I believe the peat, along with acidic fertilizers and extra macro/micro nutrients (to replace those tied up in carbonate complexes) should overcome my poor water conditions.

In the pic below, the somewhat improved chlorotic plant still in the mesh pot is on the right and the recent Nuccio's repot with peat and pumice is on the left.

My bonsai friend, also here in Central MD, is a avid and successful azalea grower. He tried straight kanuma 2 years ago and a bunch of his azaleas died. Prior to this he used bark, haydite, calcined clay and pumice and did very well. I don't know why this happened.

I know that many are big fans of kanuma and it is used with great success. Kanuma users include Dave Kreutz azalea expert and supplier.

I use the pumice and bark mix with no problems as well as organic sulphur to acidify the substrate and acid fertilizers.

Best to all,

just.wing.it said:

I use the same mostly inorganic soil for mine, and fertilize with and "acid lovers" fert.
No problems so far....but from what I read, some acidic soil components are beneficial.

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Hi just.wing.it,
Can you describe the “acid lovers” fertilizer please? Liquid or granular? Thanks, Charles

KiwiPlantGuy said:

Hi just.wing.it,
Can you describe the “acid lovers” fertilizer please? Liquid or granular? Thanks, Charles

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It's a water soluble fertilizer, by miracle grow.

just.wing.it said:

It's a water soluble fertilizer, by miracle grow.

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It used to be called Miracid, but for some inexplicable reason, they changed the name.

Lazylightningny said:

It used to be called Miracid, but for some inexplicable reason, they changed the name.

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Oh, OK....
I was always wondering about Miracid...
I guess they don't call it that anymore???
I'll have to check mine in a few minutes here...

just.wing.it said:

Oh, OK....
I was always wondering about Miracid...
I guess they don't call it that anymore???
I'll have to check mine in a few minutes here...

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I have used Miracid in the past and it works, but I found it expensive in retail quantities.

Now I use a product called Super Iron 9-9-9. It is a soil acidifier, iron supplement and 9-9-9 fertilizer. I have had very good results with it. Best thing - it is available in bulk quantity at my local pro gardening store. 50 lbs costs $30 and lasts for a long time.