GGB
Masterpiece
Scots are treated the same as mugo?! sweet, I love having less to remember
All aboard the Mugo train!
- Thread starter M. Frary
- Start date
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Her's a few more.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
One More
parhamr
Omono
Wow, @Vance Wood! Do you get a good rate of return or is this just enough for you to fund a bonsai habit? I've considered attempts at a two-year turnaround for selling raw nursery stock mugos that have been given initial bonsai work.
Vance,
The second one seems the one with the most potential. The one with the huge trunk is intriguing, but how do you develop the trunk?
By the way, what did you think of my shimpaku projects?
Leonard
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
To be honest about the Shimpakus; I am not a real fan of Tanuki grafts. Bring them in Sunday and we will talk about it. As to the Mugos; when you get trunks as large as these you are not really developing a trunk, you already have one, you are developing the branching and design to show it off. It is this point or pit fall that many trip over or fall into, lacking the ability or not being able to understand, if they have material that needs to be developed, as in being grown out, or designed, as in eliminating all but crucial elements. These Mugos are for the most part in the elimination process where less is more.
Artists that have material in these two differing points of development have to determine which they have. Are they trying to grow something up into a mold that for the most part exists in their mind only, or they trying to cut something down, from existing material, to resemble an image that exists in their mind that can be created from what exists at present.
Artists that have material in these two differing points of development have to determine which they have. Are they trying to grow something up into a mold that for the most part exists in their mind only, or they trying to cut something down, from existing material, to resemble an image that exists in their mind that can be created from what exists at present.
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Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
It's hard to tell how successful you can be at reselling this kind of material. It has been my experience that most people you are going to run into don't fully understand or appreciate the material in the way you do. They cannot see what you see, it's not their fault but it is none the less a fact. A year ago I brought all of the huge trunked Mugos to our clubs sale and auction, and did not sell one of them. Now I am getting people asking if I had any of them left? Of course that's after I have done some of the elimination.
Bolero
Omono
Vance Wood May 2015....
This is actually a pretty nice tree as Mugos go. One thing I have come to realize, or maybe it is accept, is the fact that finding a Mugo that is only one or two steps away from being a bonsai is almost a myth. Most nursery Mugos are in need of major reduction, a process I look at as weathering. In the wild the weather and environment are pretty brutal with these trees. Branches are broken, the dead wood is polished, splintered and any number of things over any number of years eventually revealing an image that is worthy of a bonsai. Most of this with nursery material must be done by you and I. You are going to have to spend time with this tree looking at it from all angles and directions and in different light exposures. The way light can hit a tree can reveal options you may not see at other times. The major fact is that you probably will not want to make a bonsai of the whole tree. A good portion of this tree will probably be removed over the years to reveal the bonsai hiding in plain sight. Mugos, when young, are very virgorous and produce branches all over the place. Many of them are formed form many spring buds that occur in the spring creating a knuckle with branches growing out in all sorts of directions mostly right accros from each other. These formations create bar branches and will always be the bane of bonsai design. It is for this reason much of the tree has to be reduced down to eliminate these formations.
Vance the Mugo's you have just Posted all look good with good Bonsai Potential but they all need a Creative Bonsai Gardener to work them to bring out the Bonsai in them, Great Potential in all of them...
This is actually a pretty nice tree as Mugos go. One thing I have come to realize, or maybe it is accept, is the fact that finding a Mugo that is only one or two steps away from being a bonsai is almost a myth. Most nursery Mugos are in need of major reduction, a process I look at as weathering. In the wild the weather and environment are pretty brutal with these trees. Branches are broken, the dead wood is polished, splintered and any number of things over any number of years eventually revealing an image that is worthy of a bonsai. Most of this with nursery material must be done by you and I. You are going to have to spend time with this tree looking at it from all angles and directions and in different light exposures. The way light can hit a tree can reveal options you may not see at other times. The major fact is that you probably will not want to make a bonsai of the whole tree. A good portion of this tree will probably be removed over the years to reveal the bonsai hiding in plain sight. Mugos, when young, are very virgorous and produce branches all over the place. Many of them are formed form many spring buds that occur in the spring creating a knuckle with branches growing out in all sorts of directions mostly right accros from each other. These formations create bar branches and will always be the bane of bonsai design. It is for this reason much of the tree has to be reduced down to eliminate these formations.
Vance the Mugo's you have just Posted all look good with good Bonsai Potential but they all need a Creative Bonsai Gardener to work them to bring out the Bonsai in them, Great Potential in all of them...
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
An interesting thing about all of this I have discovered over the years; people will moan and grown about raw material like these Mugos are as having no potential but at the same time will spend a boat load of money for a collected tree that costs about as much as a small car and has just about as much potential. They will drool allover one of these trees and have about as much vision for it as the Mugo they rejected. I don't fault anyone for this either but it does show me that one of the biggest problems is not the material but the perception of the material.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
If you still have the second one I'll buy it.
I should have gotten it from you when it was sitting in front of me last year.
I should have gotten it from you when it was sitting in front of me last year.
Vance,
I get the drift.
Since the trunk is well defined, you now start to develop the main branch, then the second, etc. There will not be an apex for 5 years ( if that ) until the branches have grown to provide the proper taper for the tree.
Otherwise, it will be a bulbous base with great nebari but still not proportioned properly until that taper is well enough defined.
That being said, do you now leave it alone ( for how many growing seasons )? Do you leave all the branches showing intact to develop ( thicken ) into the main branches, some to be sacrificed later?
I am talking this through with you now to show I have been trying to do some homework before we get in to the nitty gritty. This will take a serious collector who can follow through on what needs to be done, and these could well develop into magnificent trees ( in about 10 years, or so right? ).
During that period is plenty of time for studying other mugo bonsai to determine what is possible ( or not ). And also coordinating major branch bending where needed. Am I close?
Regards,
Leonard
Vance,
I haven't been doing this long enough to drool thank you very much. You and Mike only gave me the foundations for learning how to drool ( no drooling was performed in making of this enthusiast, lol ).
Mike,
Shame on you for trying to buy this out from under me ( before I can get Vance to approve or debunk my development theories).
Truthfully, I think either one of these is sooooo far over my head. Maybe I should just tackle learning how to keep mugo's healthy ( and alive )? But seeing material like this with all the potential is fascinating ( but no evidence of droolin yet, lol ).
Were you going to try and take some photo's for me of potential collectables before we talk about a field trip next month?
Regards,
Leonard
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Material like this is marginally uncommon. Did you watch the set of videos I posted when my wife and myself were out hunting these guys down? That should give you a general ideal.
If you look at the first frame or two you should notice that there is nothing to see other than the fact there are some really healthy looking Mugo Pines, but from this point of view almost nothing that smacks of bonsai. As you watch you will start to understand the process. Good material does not fall off the table out you, you have to learn to look and pay attention.
I included another video from the same day that shows a few different point of view. Some suggest that Mugos are grafted and I find no evidence for this point of view.
If you look at the first frame or two you should notice that there is nothing to see other than the fact there are some really healthy looking Mugo Pines, but from this point of view almost nothing that smacks of bonsai. As you watch you will start to understand the process. Good material does not fall off the table out you, you have to learn to look and pay attention.
I included another video from the same day that shows a few different point of view. Some suggest that Mugos are grafted and I find no evidence for this point of view.
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M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
You get it if you want it Leonard. It's nice. He had it there last show but I got a Scots from him.
It's all yours buddy. I wouldn't pull the rug out from under you.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
You guys just let me know wnat you decide.
Mike,
Just teasing. Like I said, this is sooo far over my head. I know Vance will save it for you and I can watch and learn after that.
Vance,
I mulched around that small mugo I got from you last year at the club show ( just in case I had a zombie wannabe mugo on my hands ). Checked it today and while the needles are all brown, the branches are all very flexible and not brittle ( dead ) and breaking off. Dare I hope that it is not dead but still in recovery?
Thanks,
Leonard
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I hope it is alive but bring it with you I would very much like to take a look and see if I can figure out what may have gong wrong with it.
Thanks Vance
mattspinniken
Omono
I think maybe you are right but as you know finding good trees at a nursery is not easy. The main reason I prefer collected is not contorted shapes of trunks but the age and bark. Good nursery trees are still grown as fast as possible while "good" collected trees may put on a cm of growth in 2 years. They tend to display more age and I really like that. Im not disagreeing with you though I think people can get biased and maybe I am too. Mugo tends to have nice bark early but things like Larch from nursery stock just look so young to me even with a 6'' trunk.
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