I could not resist

petegreg said:

I like Mach5 virtual too. But look at an empty space between the two trunks. I'm afraid as the tree will grow and the thrunks thicken, that break between the trunks will disappear.

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I think its an optical illusion from my terrible photography skills lol, that the 2nd trunk or lower branch looks so close soz.

Rob_phillips said:

Thanks for the posts so far im learning alot great info and debate.

In answer to your question on cost of the tree it was £450

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Wow pricey but the materialisgood so its to be expected

MACH5 said:

For me it would be a shame not to use the lower trunk on this tree. Certainly it can be designed to work without it. A few possibilities here. From the photos, the view that attracted me the most was the second pic down.

Here is a quick virt using that view.

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What he said ^^^
Very nice M. I've been crazy busy this week first chance to come look at the forum.

Rob_phillips said:

I think its an optical illusion from my terrible photography skills lol, that the 2nd trunk or lower branch looks so close soz.

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Rob perhaps then rotate it a bit to get more separation. Or cut down the small trunk to the first branch? How is the nebari anyways from this angle?

Adair M said:

Mach5 makes nice virts.

However, and Mach and I have discussed this, I don't like how Mach draws the branches. He draws them with the underneath bud extending the branch. That "sometimes" happens, but usually it's the upper bud that extends the branch. The branch growing from the upper bud shades out the lower branch.

What's the difference?

Branches extending as top buds dominating grow out as a series of "hills". Branches grown out using bottom buds extend as a series of "valleys". Which is the way Mach drew it.

However, go out and look at deciduous trees now, while they're bare of leaves. You'll see that they grow out predominately as "hills". Occasionally, there will be a "valley". But mostly hills.

Here's a little drawing I made to illustrate the concept:

View attachment 131406

The top is "hills", the bottom is "valleys". Which looks more natural?

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Sure Adair but unfair question to ask. The reality is you do have a combination of both in a deciduous tree and anything in between. I think you may be looking at my drawings a little too closely. It is merely my own shorthand way of drawing deciduous trees. I quickly do these for general direction. The upswing strokes I draw emphasize the upwards movement of branches as it happens in nature but not really getting too detailed or technical about it. Most of my drawings (or virts) aim for the gist not for the must.

MACH5 said:

Sure Adair but unfair question to ask. The reality is you do have a combination of both in a deciduous tree and anything in between. I think you may be looking at my drawings a little too closely. It is merely my own shorthand way of drawing deciduous trees. I quickly do these for general direction. The upswing strokes I draw emphasize the upwards movement of branches as it happens in nature but not really getting too detailed or technical about it. Most of my drawings (or virts) aim for the gist not for the must.

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Sure, and sometimes the lower bud does grow out to be the dominant ones. But mostly, the upper ones dominate. They shade out the lower ones. The lower ones are usually weaker, thinner, sparcer. Until they get slugged off.

Out near the ends of the branches, you'll see more lower bud branches. But back closer to the trunk, you'll see where the upper bud branches dominated, and the lower branches withered.

So the crab apples buds are really starting to pop now just in time for me returning form the swindon winter bonsai show in the uk.
The show had loads of awsome tree displays and i was in ore with most of them, the quality was excellent and i learned loads from refinement to how to style properly.
But the best part of the show was the trade area brilliant trees for sale and all the best pot makers the uk has to offer. so i purchased a lovely, walsal ceramics pot for my crab apple just in time for the repotting. Its got a mustard coloured glaze so the leaves, blossoms and apples should pop when they re appear this year

This is the only pick i have of the new pot before i repotted the tree into it but here is the tree in the new pot. Sorry for the awfull pics

With this new potting angle aswell there are loads of potentials for a new front aswell

Dont forget that the branches you see now will be totally changed over time to give it better shape so i could choose any new front on the trunk line and develop from there.

JudyB said:

Like the crab, did you just repot it? I think I'd try to get the old soil off the rootball in the spring, but leave it alone till then. Maybe get rid of the wrapping root if you have enough other ones and can cut it off.

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I managed to get rid of all the ugly rapping roots and removed all its original soil it was awfull soil i had to bare root it but at least now i know exactly whats around the roots.
what do you think to the base now its been worked and sunk slightly into the soil?

Rob_phillips said:

I managed to get rid of all the ugly rapping roots and removed all its original soil it was awfull soil i had to bare root it but at least now i know exactly whats around the roots.
what do you think to the base now its been worked and sunk slightly into the soil?

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Sorry wrapping roots not rapping lol ooooopps. Those roots aint dr dre

Adair M said:

Look at this little Shohin twin trunk;

View attachment 131378

It's a twin trunk, not a triple trunk. Two trunks come off the nebari. The branch on the right, is a branch off the second trunk.

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I actually had to crop and get closer look. For that branch off the second trunk looked almost as thick as the trunk. But, upon closer look. It's not quite as thick. It just appears really thick. Which at first glance...you think a triple trunk.

Here is an update on the two trees.
The crab apple.

And the twin trunk maple

Here is the crab apple two years on

The maple has had a terrible time the past two seasons.
Two seasons ago it got terribly sun scorched and went dormant in early September.
The next season it was slip potted onto it's new pot which was a terrible mistake and it should have been bare rooted as it had alot of really old solid akadama in the rootball but stupidly in my inexperience I did not want to touch the roots too much as I thought that it suffered the year previous too much.
But I wish I knew then what I know now as the reason it went dormant early two seasons ago was because of the poor root system and its issues so it really suffered last year too.
i think it must have spent all last year putting its energy into root development as through out the whole year 2018 it never once put out a shoot longer than the initial spring growth, it just sat there.
So this year I bare rooted it with harry Harrington from bonsai4me and we reported it into a pumice pine bark and sphagnum moss mix which was all large particles to promote vigorous root growth and top dressed it with akadama.
Now to leave it alone for a few seasons and regain all its vigour before anything gets done to this tree again.
Poor thing lol.
This is a pic of it just before this year's barerooting and repotting.
This tree has some lovely new really strong looking buds on it so I'm hopeful for the season ahead but as it's still really cold at nights my deciduous trees are still relatively dormant at the moment.
I will keep you up to date.