Thanks to all who offered advice...on the Ponderosa Pine

Not All All...
Just these...



I like the taper in that trunk...
That is the character branch for me,
No matter where the soil line goes.

It will remain tapered and pretty without them roots IMO.

Sorce

I asked them if they knew the history of this tree. The more I look at it. There is moss that has grown in between the roots exposed and the surface of the base on the substrate makes me think...it's been unearthed and exposed root for awhile. Confirmation my payment was accepted. Never doubted it...so it may ship out Monday. I'm curious how deep a pot I'm going to need for this. (To bury it as intended) It's a maple...I believe it may have been @JudyB who said maples can be repotted even while open leaf. I can offer it the aftercare for our area. That's not even a concern. Wish to make sure that the case...since I have no pot for it. Need to locate one...and, if this has been exposed for some time. There is no chance of sparing any of the fine roots by buring. Then, no rush in finding a pot. I can just do repot next spring. And bury deeper then. I've come to the point...I feel like a slug in the not rushing area of bonsai. No immediate I've got to do something...I'm in the lines of letting it whisper to me. And...not stressing and forcing things on trees. Though I grasp there is. Time for techniques applied...just not as soon as it arrives in my hands. If that makes sense.

@sorce ...I'm not rushing this tree. Or overly concerned at this time with the roots that are finer. I will put it in the mental vault to consider at a later date. Depending on what it offers to the final image I wish to embrace. So thanks for the suggestion. I won't say I won't consider it...it's really way to early to decide on a direction. And...I'm just not feeling a rush to decide. Shoot it's not even on my bench yet. I have plenty of time. But once gone...you don't get a redo.

Cadillactaste said:

@sorce ...I'm not rushing this tree. Or overly concerned at this time with the roots that are finer. I will put it in the mental vault to consider at a later date. Depending on what it offers to the final image I wish to embrace. So thanks for the suggestion. I won't say I won't consider it...it's really way to early to decide on a direction. And...I'm just not feeling a rush to decide. Shoot it's not even on my bench yet. I have plenty of time. But once gone...you don't get a redo.

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I can redo the roots

thumblessprimate1 said:

I can redo the roots

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Well,yeah...one could. You got me on that. Lol good one!

Judging by the bark on the thicker roots, the roots have not been recently exposed.
Many of the finer roots look compromised. I would inspect the roots closely upon receipt to determine which are live and which are dead and in need of removal. You may end up with some interesting usable roots to keep exposed; but then you may not. Plus, there is a mess inside that birds nest and you need to clean it out if its ever going to look right.
IMO, you should either develop it as tall exposed root style, or add soil and ground layer so no roots are exposed and work it into a shallow pot. I don't think anything in between is really going to turn out well.
I definitely would not plant it deeper without cutting off the lower roots. If you plant it deeper and don't shorten the height of the roots you will end up with a wide tree in a tall pot and that will look strange. If you want the upper roots to become active then you need to do more than just plant it deeper.

Don Blackmond said:

Judging by the bark on the thicker roots, the roots have not been recently exposed.
Many of the finer roots look compromised. I would inspect the roots closely upon receipt to determine which are live and which are dead and in need of removal. You may end up with some interesting usable roots to keep exposed; but then you may not. Plus, there is a mess inside that birds nest and you need to clean it out if its ever going to look right.
IMO, you should either develop it as tall exposed root style, or add soil and ground layer so no roots are exposed and work it into a shallow pot. I don't think anything in between is really going to turn out well.
I definitely would not plant it deeper without cutting off the lower roots. If you plant it deeper and don't shorten the height of the roots you will end up with a wide tree in a tall pot and that will look strange. If you want the upper roots to become active then you need to do more than just plant it deeper.

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Thanks Don for your direction and understanding of these things. As well as explaining why NOT to bury this thing deeper. Much appreciated!

DUMB QUESTION:
On exposed roots...how does one know if they are dead?

Assuming brittle and dried out. I think of my Neagari azalea...they are strong roots. I guess dead ones I assume look quite opposite dried out and exposed.

I agree with Don. One way or the other.

Personally, I might see how it does as a raft. That horizontal branch with the little roots hanging down? If they are alive, id go with a raft. Tilt the tree a little, and pot it so that trunk (branch) is half under the soil. Those little roots would thrive. And you'd have a cool raft.

Adair M said:

I agree with Don. One way or the other.

Personally, I might see how it does as a raft. That horizontal branch with the little roots hanging down? If they are alive, id go with a raft. Tilt the tree a little, and pot it so that trunk (branch) is half under the soil. Those little roots would thrive. And you'd have a cool raft.

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Raft or not you still have to deal with all that thick roots that go straight down with very little feeder roots at the top 3 inches. As Don said, you going to have a wide and deep pot tree.

namnhi said:

Raft or not you still have to deal with all that thick roots that go straight down with very little feeder roots at the top 3 inches. As Don said, you going to have a wide and deep pot tree.

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For a while.

Dead roots will be brittle and shriveled or with wrinkled bark. You'll know once you spend time with it.
Plus, with a neagari style, you will need to remove some of the live roots too, assuming the majority are alive. You have too many exposed roots for a good neagari style.
Adair's comment about a raft is what I was referring to if you add soil and ground layer.

Cadillactaste said:

On exposed roots...how does one know if they are dead?

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If they look like...yours...

The good bonsai in this hot mess is the part you have already cropped into your avatar.

Don Blackmond said:

Dead roots will be brittle and shriveled or with wrinkled bark. You'll know once you spend time with it.
Plus, with a neagari style, you will need to remove some of the live roots too, assuming the majority are alive. You have too many exposed roots for a good neagari style.
Adair's comment about a raft is what I was referring to if you add soil and ground layer.

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Thanks Don! For a more clear direction.

I really admire Matt Smith's turtle back clump maples. That is what I seen when I seen this but, with a bit more character. His are in deeper pots...with no roots coming off the clump mound. I would like to possibly create that. Which means...deeper pot at final potting and reducing the root system and lowering it slowly into the pot. That was what I seen when I seen this. I will remove dead roots...but nothing major until I know the exact direction. Because many suggestions via here,a FB group and in PM's have came in. And many ideas are possible direction. I do not wish roots coming off the sides of the root clump. It was because there was none...that made me see Matt's turtle back look. Which right or wrong...I like. In Will's book of Dan's trees...there is also a conifer grouping on a conifer rooting mound. Which resembles Matt's turtle back style. It intrigued me as well.

Asked about the history of the tree. Received this...I'm not surprised it's in leaf. So as of now...I will enjoy its foliage and contemplated my next more for next year.

Thanks for the order, and thanks for getting in touch. It really is a
beautiful and unusual piece.
In fact we were hoping to put it in a bonsai pot this year but she leafed
out early and we missed the chance.
Which works out nicely for you!

Let me see what I can find out about it.
I do know that it is from the West Coast. California Bay area, and that
she was basically grown outside year round with temps rarely going below
freezing.
We have been keeping in a greenhouse that is heated to just above freezing
at night.
Grown and styled for many years by a Japanese gentleman who is well into
his 90's now, and has retired from his backyard bonsai passion.


Our temps are still dropping quite low at night so we have have to
postpone shipping until the night temps are solidly above freezing, we
don't want the tender new leaves damaged.
But we will be in touch about that.
In the meantime, I will see if there is any other information about it.

Thanks again,
Teddi

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Cadillactaste said:

Thanks Don! For a more clear direction.

I really admire Matt Smith's turtle back clump maples. That is what I seen when I seen this but, with a bit more character. His are in deeper pots...with no roots coming off the clump mound. I would like to possibly create that. Which means...deeper pot at final potting and reducing the root system and lowering it slowly into the pot. That was what I seen when I seen this. I will remove dead roots...but nothing major until I know the exact direction. Because many suggestions via here,a FB group and in PM's have came in. And many ideas are possible direction. I do not wish roots coming off the sides of the root clump. It was because there was none...that made me see Matt's turtle back look. Which right or wrong...I like. In Will's book of Dan's trees...there is also a conifer grouping on a conifer rooting mound. Which resembles Matt's turtle back style. It intrigued me as well.

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In that regard, the issue is, its not and most likely never will be a turtleback. You can develop it to have a solid, raft-style trunk base above the soil with no radial roots exposed. But, based on what's above the roots now, I don't see this material ever becoming a turtleback. Whatever you do with it, you will no doubt have fun doing it, and that's all that really matters.

Don Blackmond said:

In that regard, the issue is, its not and most likely never will be a turtleback. You can develop it to have a solid, raft-style trunk base above the soil with no radial roots exposed. But, based on what's above the roots now, I don't see this material ever becoming a turtleback. Whatever you do with it, you will no doubt have fun doing it, and that's all that really matters.

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Maybe I'm confused with what turtle back really is. I only noticed a cluster of trees with no real nebari but all connecting. What am I missing on the actual definition? I would love to understand it more. Because it's only a term I seen him/Matt use in the auction listings. But, I will take your word...that it can't be as such.

I had never heard the term "turtle back" before. It appears that Matt is using the term to describe a fused nebari.

Adair M said:

I had never heard the term "turtle back" before. It appears that Matt is using the term to describe a fused nebari.

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Yeah...never heard it before. Until Matt...gotcha.

Did Don has a Trident on eBay at one point not too long ago.