JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
sold it that same year... to someone here actually.
Current wisdom on blue spruce?
- Thread starter Paradox
- Start date
Guy Vitale
Shohin
Adair, I'm guilty of pinching in the spring before the growth hardens off, you suggest letting the new growth grow out, then cut back to a bud. Would this be in the fall or following spring prior to budding out, some other time?
wireme
Masterpiece
This little tree has been developed entirely by grow and prune so far, never been pinched. Consider the size of the tree and remember it's only just now approaching refinement stage. Results are not bad so far. Could have been more ramified by now with some pinching but I think the structure would be less satisfying. I prune in spring as soon as I can free it from the snow and ice. Anytime between fall and bud break in better climates is probably fine.
I've always expected that once it's developed to somewhere about where it is now I'll have to include some pinching to maintain it, we'll see.
Mostly I'm down with the no pinch program but I think pinching does have its place. Results of pinching are extremely predictable in terms of where new buds will appear, if you know you want buds in places you know pinching will produce them it's hard to argue. You might even get a second flush with small needles by pinching..
Grow and prune for development stage and throw in some pinching for refinement and maintenance stage is my current thinking, with a bit of it depends thrown in there too!
One of the best parts about no pinching is that you don't have to look at a bunch of stupid truncated twigs all summer. It is easy to pinch without damaging needles but a twig does look better unpinched with buds on the end I think.
Sorry don't have any blues. That was generic spruce talk and the little guy is englemann. But if the blue already has the goods going for it I say hell yeah, buy it!
I've always expected that once it's developed to somewhere about where it is now I'll have to include some pinching to maintain it, we'll see.
Mostly I'm down with the no pinch program but I think pinching does have its place. Results of pinching are extremely predictable in terms of where new buds will appear, if you know you want buds in places you know pinching will produce them it's hard to argue. You might even get a second flush with small needles by pinching..
Grow and prune for development stage and throw in some pinching for refinement and maintenance stage is my current thinking, with a bit of it depends thrown in there too!
One of the best parts about no pinching is that you don't have to look at a bunch of stupid truncated twigs all summer. It is easy to pinch without damaging needles but a twig does look better unpinched with buds on the end I think.
Sorry don't have any blues. That was generic spruce talk and the little guy is englemann. But if the blue already has the goods going for it I say hell yeah, buy it!
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defra
Masterpiece
I have bought a christmas tree blue spruce wich had a emergency repot this winter still green/blue spring is comming and im hopeing that it wil push out some new growth and survives !
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
AlainK
Imperial Masterpiece
American tree. Hates socialism!
I'm pretty sure that Harry Harrington would second that
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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I have 3 blue spruce, grafted cultivars. 'Montgomery' is the most mature, beer can diameter trunk. It was a near circular glob of foliage in a 5 gallon nursery pot. It had multiple vertical trunks. I killed off all but one vertical by removing foliage. It was less than 50 % of total foliage I removed. They will be jin once I get around to styling. Then I did radical root work, got it into a 15 x 15 x 4 inch tray. Did nothing more. It is starting its third summer of recovery. Waiting for vigorous growth & back budding to start. It was probably 20 years old when I got it.
Other two are young, need to grow up before cutting back. Will occasionally prune, basically plan is clip and grow for a decade or two. 'The Blues' is one, a pretty and weeping cultivar with longer than normal needles.
I also have one Picea orientalis, from seed, two Black Hills spruce, a grafted 'Bush's Lace' and a Bosnian spruce, P omrica (spelling?). All these are young, and need a decade or more to grow out.
Because needles are coarse, Picea pungens, Blue spruce likely will be best for larger size bonsai, over 24 inches in height or width. Picea orientalis has the finest, small needles, likely the only one I have that could be shohin, though orientalis could work for any size. I think the blue engelman spruce cultivars would be easier to make into bonsai, they have nice proportions.
All the spruces are good, especially if you get a nice fat trunk, with interesting features to start with.
Other two are young, need to grow up before cutting back. Will occasionally prune, basically plan is clip and grow for a decade or two. 'The Blues' is one, a pretty and weeping cultivar with longer than normal needles.
I also have one Picea orientalis, from seed, two Black Hills spruce, a grafted 'Bush's Lace' and a Bosnian spruce, P omrica (spelling?). All these are young, and need a decade or more to grow out.
Because needles are coarse, Picea pungens, Blue spruce likely will be best for larger size bonsai, over 24 inches in height or width. Picea orientalis has the finest, small needles, likely the only one I have that could be shohin, though orientalis could work for any size. I think the blue engelman spruce cultivars would be easier to make into bonsai, they have nice proportions.
All the spruces are good, especially if you get a nice fat trunk, with interesting features to start with.
parhamr
Omono
I just love reading things like this.
Waltron
Chumono
here's a couple Michigan white spruce I got last year that look kinda blue . some good spruce info in this thread, think ill probably just watch these this year, maybe some very minor cuts. just wee little guys.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
I have one also. They are actually better in my opinion.
I worked with blue,Norway and white spruce on a tree farm for a couple years. They have short needles and seem to take transplanting better than the others.
Tieball
Masterpiece
Those are very nice healthy buds!....all over like you say too. Mighty fine!
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
I like the Dwarf Norway spruce, I have one or two, picea abies I believe the tag said.
Super tiny little needles....reminds me of Ezo spruce.
Super tiny little needles....reminds me of Ezo spruce.
Waltron
Chumono
I'm very intrigued by them, hoping to find a nice one up there some day. curious to see yours
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
I'm terrible about pictures. When I get them out I'll take a couple and start a tread.
J. Adrian
Mame
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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Ah, I see the humor, and it shows how I think about bonsai. "Clip and grow for a decade or two" means I mostly do bonsai because I enjoy the mundane routine of growing things. Showing, having a tree to point to and say "look at that" is not my highest priority. Now don't get me wrong, I do like showing off my trees, but if you have seen my displays at club shows, I don't enjoy putting the effort into getting the details right to do a proper display. My displays always look like a rushed, thrown together afterthought. It is the growing, propagating, & training I enjoy. So "clip and grow for a decade or two" is endlessly frustrating to those who like some instant gratification. Luckily I've been at it long enough that one or two of my trees are actually approaching ''good enough for a club show''.
I had tried a few spruces in the past, and killed them. Some were old collected trees, some nursery stock. Key is learning to read the health of the tree in your hands, and judging how much abuse they can take at one sitting. Knowing your own skill at aftercare is important. One nursery I visited has a polyhouse with an ultrasonic fog system that humidifies the air every 10 minutes, heated beds and tight temperature control. They can do incredible amounts of work, and they put the trees in there to recover, rarely loosing any. I don't have any of that capability, so I have to recognize that I have to do less than the pros would if I want the tree to recover. And recovery doesn't happen overnight. I mentioned the old nursery stock blue spruce is starting its 3rd growing season to recover. That's because it did not make many new buds, and had relatively little new growth on existing. It doesn't look bad, but Peter Tea saw it and pointed out it needed double or triple the buds I had to be considered ready for more work. If I had gone ahead summer of 2016 I might have killed it. I won't do any work on it until after a year of vigorous growth. So most likely it will be the 4th year (2018) after the radical root work that I will for the first time do any further styling.
In the past the very next season I'd be hacking away, bending and twisting, and then it would die, simply because it had not recovered, and did not have the strength to cope with what I did. Not saying you can't work on a spruce more than ''one insult a year'' just saying you need to be conscious of the tree's actual state of health.
If you are working with a species relatively new to you, there is a benefit to not doing anything to the tree for a season or two. You can see what ''normal'' good health looks like. This will help you later judging what you can ''get away with'' when you do start seriously working a tree.
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parhamr
Omono
@Leo in N E Illinois I’m also working on longterm clip and grow, have seen amazing outcomes from it, and it’s heartening to see others realizing it’s a good process
This one I only wired. Only wired branches with several buds. Cut nothing living at all. Pulled out of nursery can and slipped into similar sized container with only scratching the surface of the rootball. I hope it lives after killing the past ones as described. I bumped a branch today and several needles fell off....
