TP Hackberry #4

0soyoung

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I think it will 'heal' faster if you get the stub down even with the new leader so that then the photosynthates and auxin from the leader can 'flow' right into the 'lip' around the chop.
 

thumblessprimate1

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I think it will 'heal' faster if you get the stub down even with the new leader so that then the photosynthates and auxin from the leader can 'flow' right into the 'lip' around the chop.
I'll file some more then, which begs the questions would it heal too fast? And could healing too fast cause excessive swelling? Maybe I worry too much?
 

0soyoung

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Maybe I worry too much?
This.

could healing too fast cause excessive swelling?
An interesting thought, but how would that happen?
Healing quickly would mean an ample supply of auxin to stimulate and photosynthates with which to make wood and more epidermis (bark). I can think of only one way that it could swell faster than the general area of the tree near the wound and that is if something interrupts the auxin flow through the 'healing lip' - something analogous to or literally a tourniquet/girdle.
 

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I've put a bead of sealant on the cambium and letting it cure a bit. I plan to apply lime sulfur in coming days and then wood preserver. Finally, wrap it up with parafilm and some rubbery friction tape.
 

JudyB

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I just now took a look at this, I tend to angle my chops more, so the transition from large to small tapers a bit easier. Why the parafilm and friction tape? If you just use cut paste, it'll cover itself over without all that. And the bark under the friction tape may stay too wet and make the bark rot or peel.
 

thumblessprimate1

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I just now took a look at this, I tend to angle my chops more, so the transition from large to small tapers a bit easier. Why the parafilm and friction tape? If you just use cut paste, it'll cover itself over without all that. And the bark under the friction tape may stay too wet and make the bark rot or peel.
@Adair M has mentioned to me that help with wound healing, Matt Ouwinga wraps wounds with Saran wrap, so I thought parafilm would work better as it conforms with the contours better. Also, I think the tape could add extra support. But perhaps this only works on maples? Adair, could you fill me in?
 

thumblessprimate1

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Thanks, Judy! I actually removed a little more after the last shot. Will take a look at it again, take picture and reevaluate. I could keep going with the wood filer and Dremel, but I got tired or my Dremel ran out of batter. Not really a bad thing as prevents me from removing too much.
 

Adair M

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I don't know what "friction tape" is, but a soft sealer like TopJin will allow callous tissue to push it out of the way as it covers over. Covering with something like Sara wrap or grafting tape that's snug but not too tight will prevent the callous tissue from making a big bulge as it covers. It is forced to grow wide (over the wound) rather than just out into the air. This will greatly speed coverage over the wound. But, the callous tissue will be real thin. Extreme care is necessary when removing the film to not accidentally remove the callous tissue.

Oso, the fastest way to get callousing is to let the branch (trunk) above the wound grow uninhibited, yes? When you let something grow uninhibited, what do you get? Coarse growth, long internodes? The same is true with callous tissue. (And graft unions, by the way!) This may be exactly what the tree wants to do, cover the wound, but it doesn't care what it looks like. A bulge? It doesn't care. We do. So, a slower method that looks better in the long run is preferable for bonsai as long as the tree's health isn't compromised. This is where the cutpaste and sealers help.
 

0soyoung

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One just needs something that functions as a water barrier to cover the exposed cambium for 10-15 days. A new epidermis is fully formed by then and a cover is no longer necessary. Parafilm works, saran, polyethylene, vasaline, lanolin, even a wad of damp spagnum loosely tied on, various putties, wood glue. Stuff from a jar or tube labelled with kanji isn't required, though it too works.
 

0soyoung

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the fastest way to get callousing is to let the branch (trunk) above the wound grow uninhibited, yes? When you let something grow uninhibited, what do you get? Coarse growth, long internodes? The same is true with callous tissue.
It seems to me that the only nodes we care about are already there, close to the trunk in the new leader - the long internodes will be in what eventually gets cut off. In the worst case, the entire leader gets removed and a new branch or branches are grown from buds that sprout from the branch collar.

My observations are that wounds tend to be very slow to close the final 'cat-eye' gap. One could speed this along by applying an approach graft vertically across the wound. I think it might be wise to place the 'scion' so that it has a node is in the midst of the wound - it might pop a bud so that a stem could be grown from where the wound was. Otherwise, a branch will never emerge from the area of the wound 'scar' (there may be species that are the exception to this general rule) - only some Ebihara majic will put one there again.
 

Adair M

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It seems to me that the only nodes we care about are already there, close to the trunk in the new leader - the long internodes will be in what eventually gets cut off. In the worst case, the entire leader gets removed and a new branch or branches are grown from buds that sprout from the branch collar.

My observations are that wounds tend to be very slow to close the final 'cat-eye' gap. One could speed this along by applying an approach graft vertically across the wound. I think it might be wise to place the 'scion' so that it has a node is in the midst of the wound - it might pop a bud so that a stem could be grown from where the wound was. Otherwise, a branch will never emerge from the area of the wound 'scar' (there may be species that are the exception to this general rule) - only some Ebihara majic will put one there again.

Sorry, you missed my point. Fast coarse growth will promote a a thick bulging callous. Just as it promotes long internodes. (It's true we will cut off a sacrifice nice the scar heals... yielding another scar to heal! :confused:

So, rather than try to use rank growth, use a bit more controlled growth combined with a covering that physically retards bulging, while at the same time encourages coverage of the wound by directing the tree's natural tendency to "bulge" to the inside where it will cover over the wound.

TopJin is very much like Elmers glue. Except it has anti-bacterial and anti-fungal properties. Whether these properties are beneficial I suppose is debatable, but I have good success with it. I don't need to use much of it, and my single $15 tube is likely to last me another 5 or 6 years. To date, I have not had any dieback on any wound treated with it.
 

thumblessprimate1

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Sorry, you missed my point. Fast coarse growth will promote a a thick bulging callous. Just as it promotes long internodes. (It's true we will cut off a sacrifice nice the scar heals... yielding another scar to heal! :confused:

So, rather than try to use rank growth, use a bit more controlled growth combined with a covering that physically retards bulging, while at the same time encourages coverage of the wound by directing the tree's natural tendency to "bulge" to the inside where it will cover over the wound.

TopJin is very much like Elmers glue. Except it has anti-bacterial and anti-fungal properties. Whether these properties are beneficial I suppose is debatable, but I have good success with it. I don't need to use much of it, and my single $15 tube is likely to last me another 5 or 6 years. To date, I have not had any dieback on any wound treated with it.
I'm amazed to hear regularly how many years you guys make your sealant supply last. It's got to be a rookie mistake how fast I go through them.
 

Anthony

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@thumblessprimate1

just wondering, what about taper ?

The trunk/wound zone with the shoot, if you try to bring that into harmony [ as sizes go ] ?

So if the shoot is allowed to grow to help the taper, why do you need wound sealant ?
Good Day
Anthony

* Does one need a long branch extension of say 3 to 6 feet or many branchlets if added together,
equal 3 to 6 feet ?
From the same branch.
 

thumblessprimate1

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@thumblessprimate1

just wondering, what about taper ?

The trunk/wound zone with the shoot, if you try to bring that into harmony [ as sizes go ] ?

So if the shoot is allowed to grow to help the taper, why do you need wound sealant ?
Good Day
Anthony

* Does one need a long branch extension of say 3 to 6 feet or many branchlets if added together,
equal 3 to 6 feet ?
From the same branch.

I'm not sure about the branch or branchletts. I'd like to pull something off like what's demonstrated in Mach5's maple post, here. I let the leading branch grow and thicken to pull tissue over the carved wound and for some taper. All while developing the branches too.

As for sealant, I use the sealant just to keep cambium from bleeding.
 
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