Are There People Here Consciously Creating "Naturalistic" Bonsai or Penjing?

Vance Wood

Lord Mugo
Messages
14,002
Reaction score
16,911
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
5-6
The Japanese didn't just invent the green helmet, as you call it, out of imagination it is a trait that occurs naturally on Pines and Junipers.
 

Eric Group

Masterpiece
Messages
4,554
Reaction score
4,854
Location
Columbia, SC
These are my trees which I would like to look as naturalistic as I can. Still relatively "young" but general direction is set for them.

DSC_2072.JPG


DSC_3066.JPG


DSC_1833.JPG
The last one especially is really nice!
 
Messages
3,554
Reaction score
4,268
Nothing complicated, I am certainly not one of the ones who will shout you down for voicing an opinion... Just want some more identity of what is and it not naturalistic I guess... pics welcomed
I like Grouper52... have always admired his work... I told him so on the other thread. As well, I told him I appreciated him taking the time to PM me before leaving the last time, to tell me he liked my work as well. It was awesome of him to do so... and he didn't obviously have too.... but still did.

I also don't have a problem with him or anyone else having an "Opinion ".

I merely asked why he held the "Opinion" that he was somehow trying to "Restore Order"...

When it is clear that he didn't actually take the time to understand the problem. .. and in fact contributed to it?

By posting the following...

LOL! It may interest you to know that my day job for the past 30+ years is as a board certified psychiatrist - and yes, you have hit the nail on the head, and that was my intent in writing the question. At this time in this culture 90% of everything is about narcissism, and our enfeebled underlying self-esteem demands that we be special folks. If we be doing bonsai, it bloody well better be an art, and we bloody well better be thought of by others and ourselves as "Artists"! (No accident that my album is named "Trees of a Hobbyist.")


Now... he has the right to have his "Opinion "... But when the actual facts show, that he had no intention of actually trying to "Restore Order "... and in fact contributed in the assult of others "Opinions"... some one should be able to call BS.

I mean... if we are some big happy family and all? Always amazing how many people are soooooooo... innocent in life?

Which is sad really... Me and Grouper52, actually really share a passion for Penjing.
We have had discussions quite a few times scattered throughout threads here and there... regarding the subject.

Hopefully, he checks out the link I posted with my comment... Alot of BS in that thread... but, I did post up what I believe was some really intense conversation regarding Penjing. He might have to scroll an awful lot though to find it, though...

Of which perhaps we can discuss more in the next life.
 

MichaelS

Masterpiece
Messages
2,013
Reaction score
4,733
Location
Australia
The Japanese didn't just invent the green helmet, as you call it, out of imagination it is a trait that occurs naturally on Pines and Junipers.

Not on black Japanese pines. (unless they are in Japanese garden)
jbp1.PNG jbp2.PNG jbp3.PNG jbp4.PNG

Not on simpaku either.
The green dome is simply the result of repeated pinching and pruning and it just happens to agree with Japanese taste.
 
Last edited:

Vin

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,257
Reaction score
7,645
Location
Panama City, FL Zone 9a/8b Centr
USDA Zone
8b
I'm not sure if my Dawn Redwood qualifies as naturalistic but that's my objective. Will, your input will be appreciated. On a side note, I was asked by my club to put this in a little local show we put on every year this past weekend. It must either be interesting, extremely ugly or a laughing stock because I noticed a lot of people stopping to look at it.

DW 3.26.2017.1.jpg
 

ghues

Omono
Messages
1,554
Reaction score
3,140
Location
Campbell River BC Canada
USDA Zone
7b
Hey, ghues! Really nice trees, and I'm especially fond of that last one - drool .... yes, more feminine, although I wonder if you're just collecting this type because you three guys have totally cleaned out all of the "short fat guys" on the island by now! :)

Yes, Peter and I go back a ways - say hi to him when you next see him. One of the world's truly great guys.

Anton and I have never met, although I do know of him from the 4-wheeler tracks he's left all over the bogs up there ...

I don't believe you and I have met, have we? I know of you, and have admired your trees here on B'Nut, but I don't think we've met, and I'm not even sure I know your real name except the handle you use here on the forums. Maybe some day if I get up that way again . . .

Keep us posted as those trees progress - it'd be great to see what you do with them.

Will
Hey Will, no we've not meet. There are still many short stubby ones, but as you know most are informal uprights at best........there are newly found areas.

Speaking of helmet head Bonsai..........one collection area shows Mountain Hemlock "helmet heads", it's just the way some of them grow......30' of snow forces that type of growth...
 

herzausstahl

Chumono
Messages
522
Reaction score
547
Location
NE Wisconsin
USDA Zone
5a



lol I saw the pic & immediately thought smokies & all the dead trees around clingmans dome before I scrolled down to your caption. Been there twice & loved it. Can't wait to drive back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vin

Eric Group

Masterpiece
Messages
4,554
Reaction score
4,854
Location
Columbia, SC

Anthony

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,290
Reaction score
8,388
Location
West Indies [ Caribbean ]
USDA Zone
13

JudyB

Queen of the Nuts
Messages
13,751
Reaction score
23,250
Location
South East of Cols. OH
USDA Zone
6a
I'm not sure if my Dawn Redwood qualifies as naturalistic but that's my objective. Will, your input will be appreciated. On a side note, I was asked by my club to put this in a little local show we put on every year this past weekend. It must either be interesting, extremely ugly or a laughing stock because I noticed a lot of people stopping to look at it.

View attachment 143959
I really like this Vin, I have my own quirky trees, they don't really fit into specific categories, and that's ok.
Wonder where you are going with the apex branches...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vin

Vin

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,257
Reaction score
7,645
Location
Panama City, FL Zone 9a/8b Centr
USDA Zone
8b
I really like this Vin, I have my own quirky trees, they don't really fit into specific categories, and that's ok.
Wonder where you are going with the apex branches...
@JudyB @sorce @herzausstahl Thanks! Judy, this is the first year wiring the apex. As of today I only have foliage on the tips of each of the two apex branches but there are many other buds waiting to pop. I also still have the bar branch issue to deal with so for now I'm going to let it do its thing without getting too wild and see where it takes me. Funny story; at the show we didn't have any Dawn Redwood signs made up so I used a Bald Cypress one. It took almost 3 hours for someone to catch it.
 

grouper52

Masterpiece
Messages
2,377
Reaction score
3,718
Location
Port Orchard, WA
USDA Zone
8
I'm not sure if my Dawn Redwood qualifies as naturalistic but that's my objective. Will, your input will be appreciated. On a side note, I was asked by my club to put this in a little local show we put on every year this past weekend. It must either be interesting, extremely ugly or a laughing stock because I noticed a lot of people stopping to look at it.

View attachment 143959

Hey Vin - great looking tree! I don't know, nor really care, how I would classify it, except in the "Interesting" category: and I usually loves me the more "interesting" trees! It has character, a mighty fine saucy attitude, and I think that's refreshing. It's letting it all hang out, baby, and wha'chew goawn do 'bout it anyway, honey, but get your fat behin' back home to yo' li'l green helmitty 1-2-3 branch thangs if you don' likes it? [Apologies to anyone "highly offended" by my lapse into attempted humor there :) ].

Anyway, great to see this tree, and it'll be great to see what part the foliage will play in the image when it comes out.
 

grouper52

Masterpiece
Messages
2,377
Reaction score
3,718
Location
Port Orchard, WA
USDA Zone
8
Always searching for the older or oldest J.B.pines in the world ------------ untouched by man's hand.
To see what they really look like.
Alas this all that normally comes up.

But look at how thick those lower branches are ..............

Yeow! My first thought was, "maybe growing near Fukushima ... "
 

Vin

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,257
Reaction score
7,645
Location
Panama City, FL Zone 9a/8b Centr
USDA Zone
8b
I like how The pot lines and The base lines match the curves in the top.
It Gets you up and Down the straight part easily.
Incorporates the pot.

Lovely.

Makes you miss the Rock!
:p

Sorce
It's official; I posted something that made @sorce respond with something that everyone can understand! ;) I hadn't thought about it that deeply but I feel what you're saying.
 

Maros

Chumono
Messages
566
Reaction score
2,981
Location
Slovakia
The last one especially is really nice!
Thanks Eric.

I wanted to add few thoughts about naturalistic styling of the trees like I understand them.

There are different growing patterns in different climates and elevations. Trees grow bit differently in 100m above sea level than in 1000m. Also other weather aspects play significant role in their final shape. If the tree has enough or not enough water, if it is standing on place with strong prevailing wind, amount of snowfall could play role etc.

So I think it is big difference what means natural/naturalistic shape to guy from Alaska, Slovakia, Trinidad or Australia. It would be nice to see different pictures from guys from different areas to compare details.

Regarding deciduous trees, main source of inspiration for me (and I think most of us) are SOLITARY trees. Trees growing in dense woods tend to be rather boring and thus are not good inspiration. They are trying to search light and doing that competing with many other trees around they tend to grow straight tall trunks.

Solitary trees, on pastures, hillsides, in parks could be good example and source of inspiration in styling deciduous bonsai in naturalistic style.

There is always question about age of those kind of trees (are they old enough?) and man interventions into their current sate. Obviously there are rare examples of solitary trees growing in developed countries (not taking into account very remote and hostile parts of northern hemisphere) with potentially no human intervention. But still old oak or maple in the park is decent example of tree worth copying or emulating when you try to design your bonsai.

So I think deciduous bonsai in naturalistic style upright trees:

- Has rarely single main trunk line, usually trunk splits onto sub-trunks

- Direction of main structure (trunk and sub-trunks ) of the tree is usually up

- No absurd nebari (in some cases more gentle the better)

- Could be elegant trunk, no sumo trunks usually

- No exactly defined foliage pads

- Believable structure of the tree, believable overall appearance of the tree (you could be able to imagine tree is growing in nature)

- No triangular shape of crown.
- Oval, or round shape of crown

Thoughts are welcome.


DSC_0519.JPG DSC_2978.JPG DSC_2988.JPG DSC_3677.JPG DSC_8801.JPG
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0051 – kópia.JPG
    IMG_0051 – kópia.JPG
    550.1 KB · Views: 2
Top Bottom