Knobby Trident

Adair M · Apr 2, 2017

Look up MarkyScott's "Ebihara Maples" thread. It's a long one, and it starts off with rootwork. But the summer wiring stuff is in there, too.

Another good reference is Peter Tea's blog back when he was in Japan.

markyscott · Apr 2, 2017

Grant Hamby said:
Fiiiiiine, lol... I do remember you talking about wiring the green shoots, then cutting back, multiple times in a season.

Speaking of cutting back, are there any rules of thumb on when to cut back? Number of leaf pairs or length of shoot? I plan on letting the first branch go for a while, but I figure I'll cut back the apex for taper & ramification.

Hi Grant. I don't advise people to cut back soft growth. It's best to wait for the spring shoots harden off before we cut back. You want the tree strong so you get another big flush when you cut back. Cutting back lignified growth will do that - cutting back soft growth will weaken it.

In your case though, you're building branches - you'll want to let the shoots attached to the branches you're trying to thicken run until you have the desired branch thickness first, and then cut back. Mine is just about ready to work.

I'll give it a couple more weeks and then do some work on it.

Scott

Grant Hamby · Apr 2, 2017

markyscott said:
Hi Grant. I don't advise people to cut back soft growth. It's best to wait for the spring shoots harden off before we cut back. You want the tree strong so you get another big flush when you cut back. Cutting back lignified growth will do that - cutting back soft growth will weaken it.

In your case though, you're building branches - you'll want to let the shoots attached to the branches you're trying to thicken run until you have the desired branch thickness first, and then cut back. Mine is just about ready to work.

View attachment 139414

I'll give it a couple more weeks and then do some work on it.

Scott

Okay sounds good! Thanks for the info!

Timbo · Apr 2, 2017

MACH5 said:
Be careful with over watering your tree specially in cool spring weather.

You can over water bonsai soil, maple trees in a warmer climate?

namnhi · Apr 2, 2017

Timbo said:
You can over water bonsai soil, maple trees in a warmer climate?

Yes. I live in Houston. Killed quite a few of them when I first try them. You have to take into account of your soil.

Cadillactaste · Apr 2, 2017

Timbo said:
You can over water bonsai soil, maple trees in a warmer climate?

When Mach5/Sergio talks maples...it's good as gold SOLID take it to the bank knowledge.

aml1014 · Apr 2, 2017

Cadillactaste said:
When Mach5/Sergio talks maples...it's good as gold SOLID take it to the bank knowledge.

No kidding, I got crazy excited the first time he commented on one of my maples! Lol definitely an inspiring guy.

Aaron

Grant Hamby · Apr 26, 2017

After reading @markyscott 's thread, I decided it was time to do a little work on this guy.

I was more brutal on the apex since it's a small tree, don't want those branches to thicken too much. I left the first two primary branches alone for the most part, aside from a little wire. The first branch wasn't really taking off, so hopefully this pruning will direct some growth there.

Here it is after all my hacking:

I also tried my best to implement @Adair M 's strategy of favoring the upper shoot and wiring it down to create natural undulations. I wasn't able to execute it every time, but I tried.

Overall, this was a great learning experience and a rigorous test of my patience and fine motor control. Lol.

Adair M · Apr 26, 2017

Grant Hamby said:
After reading @markyscott 's thread, I decided it was time to do a little work on this guy.

I was more brutal on the apex since it's a small tree, don't want those branches to thicken too much. I left the first two primary branches alone for the most part, aside from a little wire. The first branch wasn't really taking off, so hopefully this pruning will direct some growth there.

Here it is after all my hacking:

View attachment 142674
View attachment 142675

I also tried my best to implement @Adair M 's strategy of favoring the upper shoot and wiring it down to create natural undulations. I wasn't able to execute it every time, but I tried.

View attachment 142673

Overall, this was a great learning experience and a rigorous test of my patience and fine motor control. Lol.

That's the basic idea. Do a few more wraps around the branch with the wire and you'll have more control. That way you can put in side to side curves as well as up/down.

Grant Hamby · Apr 26, 2017

Adair M said:
That's the basic idea. Do a few more wraps around the branch with the wire and you'll have more control. That way you can put in side to side curves as well as up/down.

I felt like I needed magnifying glasses and micro tweezers to get in there without shredding leaves, haha! I'm sure better technique will develop with practice, though. I suppose that's a price I'll have to pay for favoring shohin bonsai. Lol.

Adair M · Apr 26, 2017

The way to put the wire on is to "spin" it.

I'm right handed. So I usually hold the branch and wire at the anchor point, and spin the wire with my right. Here's the trick: most people try to "lay" the wire down when wiring by using their index finger guiding the wire very close to the branch being wired. Don't do that!

Instead: hold the wire and branch at the anchor point, then hold the business end of the wire about 4 or five inches away from the branch being wired. Spin the wire around the branch. And as you do this, move your left hand, the supporting hand, up the branch as you spin. You're not using the branch as leverage for the bend, rather you're spinning against where you're holding the branch and wire.

Practice doing this with aluminum wire on a pencil. Then move down to a chopstick. Then move down to a shishkabob skewer. Then to a toothpick.

Grant Hamby · Apr 26, 2017

Adair M said:
The way to put the wire on is to "spin" it.

I'm right handed. So I usually hold the branch and wire at the anchor point, and spin the wire with my right. Here's the trick: most people try to "lay" the wire down when wiring by using their index finger guiding the wire very close to the branch being wired. Don't do that!

Instead: hold the wire and branch at the anchor point, then hold the business end of the wire about 4 or five inches away from the branch being wired. Spin the wire around the branch. And as you do this, move your left hand, the supporting hand, up the branch as you spin. You're not using the branch as leverage for the bend, rather you're spinning against where you're holding the branch and wire.

Practice doing this with aluminum wire on a pencil. Then move down to a chopstick. Then move down to a shishkabob skewer. Then to a toothpick.

That's some serious wisdom. I'm gonna practice that asap! Thanks!

markyscott · Apr 26, 2017

Nice job, Grant. If I may and as Adair indicated, the wiring is a bit loose. You could have put in more movement if the coils were closer together. Also, you can remove more old leaves on the strong shoots that have extended. Just keep a couple pairs out near the growing tip. That will let more light and air into the interior.

Grant Hamby · Apr 26, 2017

markyscott said:
Nice job, Grant. If I may and as Adair indicated, the wiring is a bit loose. You could have put in more movement if the coils were closer together. Also, you can remove more old leaves on the strong shoots that have extended. Just keep a couple pairs out near the growing tip. That will let more light and air into the interior.

Okay, I'll see if I can tighten it up a bit! I'll also snip a few of those leaves asap. Thanks again!

Grant Hamby · May 9, 2017

I'm seeing a lot of this, which makes me feel good. Even though slowly, seeing a design come together is so fun.

Grant Hamby · May 30, 2017

The second flush seems to be even stronger and healthier than the first and I'm getting some good elongation on the branches I want to thicken. I already removed my last wiring since it was starting to bite in. I'll be sure to get a pic and post it later today.

Grant Hamby · May 30, 2017

Daluke · May 30, 2017

Great tree

Grant Hamby · Jul 26, 2017

Quick update: Just did a 3rd cutback on this trident. Finally felt good about the thickness of the lower branch at this point. I may cut it a little farther back, but it mainly looks long because I left the stub of a long internode. So far, I've been pretty diligent about cutting back for tight ramification.

Also, the big scar from chomping with the knob cutters is fully healed.

It's crazy to see how much healthier it looks from when I first got it. Excited to see this one in winter and get a good plan for next year.

Eric Group · Jul 27, 2017

Grant Hamby said:
Quick update: Just did a 3rd cutback on this trident. Finally felt good about the thickness of the lower branch at this point. I may cut it a little farther back, but it mainly looks long because I left the stub of a long internode. So far, I've been pretty diligent about cutting back for tight ramification.

Also, the big scar from chomping with the knob cutters is fully healed.

It's crazy to see how much healthier it looks from when I first got it. Excited to see this one in winter and get a good plan for next year.

View attachment 154670
View attachment 154668

I think you have gotten a lot of advice and a lot of good info, but some of it conflicts with the stage of development you are in..

Maybe I missed as I was skimming but did you now decide against a chop? If this is the trunk you want at the size you want and shape you want, then carry on with all the pruning and wiring... if planning a big chop to change the shape and style of the trunk, you should have done it already and then allowed the tree to grow unrestricted to heal that wound... At least the branccnjust above the chop! Developing branches and constant pruning like you are doing is not really appropriate for that stage...

Even if you want to keep the current shape and expand the trunk- let this sucker grow man! Cutting back over and over like you are doing will not get a bigger trunk in a short amount of time... or, well ever really...

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