Air layered my mallsai

M. Frary said:

Already cut a couple of mine back twice!

Click to expand...

Just cut a 3 foot branch and another one foot branch off of the weeping Chinese Elm last weekend. Does not care a bit. The only thing I find Elms do not like is a Summer repot, here very early Spring at bud swell works best.

Grimmy

sorce said:

That MG

Click to expand...

Works wonders.

Starting from the first picture in post 41. There is no obvious taper of the trunk passing the to mayor branches. Cutting them and using the intended trunkline will leave you with a non tapering trunk with two mayor cutmarks. The end-picture i would see is the same tree with a good base (it is a layer right) and the right branch as the new leader. It might be we are looking at the backside of the tree right now.
What i would do is using the current trunkline as a sacrifice. Remove all low branches on that one and leave the top, so it can pull for 5 years. By then you will have a big base with taper in the first inches (cm's), the lowest right branch you left will have grown little and will be relatively smaller. Cut the sacrifice back, let the new leader grow until the wound is almost closed. Chop and build your nice small tree.

This is a good discussion with lots of great input & thoughts. Thanks to everyone and especially ConnorDash for doing the work.

dirk hoorelbeke said:

Starting from the first picture in post 41. There is no obvious taper of the trunk passing the to mayor branches. Cutting them and using the intended trunkline will leave you with a non tapering trunk with two mayor cutmarks. The end-picture i would see is the same tree with a good base (it is a layer right) and the right branch as the new leader. It might be we are looking at the backside of the tree right now.
What i would do is using the current trunkline as a sacrifice. Remove all low branches on that one and leave the top, so it can pull for 5 years. By then you will have a big base with taper in the first inches (cm's), the lowest right branch you left will have grown little and will be relatively smaller. Cut the sacrifice back, let the new leader grow until the wound is almost closed. Chop and build your nice small tree.

Click to expand...

I actually didn't realise there was more posts after my last, so, sorry Dirk I wasn't able to heed your advice.
Here is this tree now (I've still not touched the other tree yet but that I have a good plan for a new leader). Also ignore the wound paste, I'm going to put some new paste on it, much smaller, less noticeable, better, this was just what I had at the time.





You can see the leader that's been chosen, I can see now from Dirks comment that I potentially could have left more for thickening but, it's done now. I still think this isn't so bad. The branchs along that new leader will thicken and hopefully smooth the transition with the trunk and create some taper in doing so.
Worst scenario, all new growth that bursts from it will be used and it'll take a bit longer. This wasn't never gonna be done anytime soon..

Some positives of this little tree is it has a lovely little movement in the trunk that's more than just 2D movement. It has a long road to go, this new leader will hopefully give it a better trunk, albeit perhaps less taper than other plans.
Feel free to tear me a new one with mistakes I've made. Gotta learn for future.

its going to take forever to thicken up in a pot, i would put it in the ground to grow on or failing that, make a grove or forest setting with a bunch of mallsai of similar sizes and shapes. personally i think that would be much more fun and rewarding, buts thats just me

BobbyLane said:

its going to take forever to thicken up in a pot, i would put it in the ground to grow on or failing that, make a grove or forest setting with a bunch of mallsai of similar sizes and shapes. personally i think that would be much more fun and rewarding, buts thats just me

Click to expand...

Interesting, food for thought. TBH I'm not too concerned about its trunk thickening. Just more for it's branch growth and the leader transition. Although even if it didn't transition, I can make that work.
Got plenty of garden but it's all taken up by stuff and no room for any trees to ground grow lol.
I did always think about buying more cheap mallsai to make something of them.

There is a great variance in resistance to frost in ulmus parvi. First bonsai was killed that way. I made enough cuttings by that time. Placed them in the ground. One out of ten survived winters, but died back every year. We've all been there, don't we.

Ps. If you don't want to miss posts, there is a check-box "watch thread" you can check for your own or other posts. Missed a lot of posts before i found that one...

dirk hoorelbeke said:

There is a great variance in resistance to frost in ulmus parvi. First bonsai was killed that way. I made enough cuttings by that time. Placed them in the ground. One out of ten survived winters, but died back every year. We've all been there, don't we.

Click to expand...

ive heard a few folks say that, i have a few chinese elms, both cork bark and the normal, they all seem to do ok, ive not noticed much die back, maybe a few branches here n there but nothing to be alarmed about. i think they are hardy trees and adapt quite well.

these have been in the ground a couple years
two years ago, went in like this
IMG_2477 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

and was dug up in spring recently
you can see the significant amount of growth its put on in two years and the bark is becoming nice n craggy
20170330_135225 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
20170330_140107 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

pruned and went back in like this, there is a thread on its progression in the elm section
20170330_150413 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

this one also is being developed in the ground
IMAG3517 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

i recently took the wire off and decided to put it back in the ground after sorting its roots out it went in with padded root mass containing bonsai soil and went on a tile
IMG_3973 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

i have weed matting and bark mulch in my growing bed, might help protect them from frost a bit. i currently have 7 chinese elms in the allottment beds, so if conars interested he could have another look in spring when i might be looking to offload more

i have this other thats been in the ground a couple years, i wanted to pass it on but it was a matter of transport, but i dug it up and put it in plastic pot, it just sat there neglected so now its back in the ground


although it doesnt look like this now, it just needs a pruning and some wire. then the rest of them have just become bushes. just dont have enough space on my balcony. this was from a starter tree id got on kaizen for £25.

this is how it looked when i got it


not bad for a 'starter' elm

these are 3 others just sat in the ground growing wild

Nice work indeed. Fun and underappreciated species to work with.

The next stage for my little mallsai.. this was my thinking..
Green is trunk line, red is cut, and blue is the branch I wish to continue the trunk with and move in to better position.



Things seem to have lined up well. If I made this cut, big cut, it'll taper well in to that branch. Then wire that branch a bit to raise it up and continue in to a trunk.
That'll be 3 sections of trunk, from trunk, branch then branch of transitioning thickness which over the years should smooth more and look better.

One thing, making that cut, indicated in red, will cut off 90% of the trees foliage.. but it's a Chinese elm so.. hardly a big deal!
Thoughts?

Usually with chop and grow, you'd chop them start new leader etc etc but these branchs are already in place. Seems like a very good thing, and good luck! But is it?

ConorDash said:

Seems like a very good thing, and good luck! But is it?

Click to expand...

It is.
I'm thinking you're getting this stuff down Conor.

M. Frary said:

It is.
I'm thinking you're getting this stuff down Conor.

Click to expand...

Lol can I quote you on that? (Get it, cos I literally quoted you... did I ruin the praise with that shit joke?).

Thanks! Good to know. Nice of you to say.
This tree is a mess, honestly, but I reckon one day... one day it'll be cool.
I'll be able to show old pics of this thing then show the years of work.
I'll make these changes today probably.

She's a bit prettier now and I can see a future.
Hope my anchoring is enough on the wire. I should have done 1 extra wrap around for the anchor.
I've got pics, I'll monitor over a few days and see if it's not holding.

9 days later...




This is why everyone loves Chinese elm. Amazing fast growth. Bullet proof.