JWP Pinus parviflora 'Negishi' starter tree

Driver170

Shohin
Messages
302
Reaction score
120
Location
Scotland, Edinburgh
I bought this about a month ago and i'm leaving it to grow wild to fatten up the trunk and branches.

Apart from water and fertilise is there anything else i should do? Or should i just let it grow a few seasons?
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1094.JPG
    IMG_1094.JPG
    362.1 KB · Views: 140
  • IMG_1095.JPG
    IMG_1095.JPG
    424.4 KB · Views: 127
  • IMG_1101.JPG
    IMG_1101.JPG
    558.2 KB · Views: 129
  • IMG_1291.JPG
    IMG_1291.JPG
    511.2 KB · Views: 124
  • IMG_1292.JPG
    IMG_1292.JPG
    353.5 KB · Views: 124
  • IMG_1293.JPG
    IMG_1293.JPG
    354.8 KB · Views: 121
  • IMG_1294.JPG
    IMG_1294.JPG
    470.1 KB · Views: 141

JoeR

Masterpiece
Messages
3,949
Reaction score
3,452
Location
Sandhills of North Carolina
USDA Zone
8a
"A few seasons" is an understatement... 10 years minimum would be more like it. Sadly tis the struggle with jwp
 

Brian Van Fleet

Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Messages
13,990
Reaction score
46,115
Location
B’ham, AL
USDA Zone
8A
Here is a thread on a 'Zuisho' JWP; grafted on JBP understock: Zuisho White Pine.
Zuisho is one of several dwarf (small-needles) JWP cultivars. I share it here because you can follow along and see what 13 growing seasons produces with JWP. Larger varieties will grow faster, but you will get the idea:
2006 (think "pencil") and 2017:
IMG_1151.JPG 6174633056_IMG_7785.JPG
Again, with better photos, we could give some virts. For now, keep in mind that some of the current tree will be used to thicken up the trunk, and then be pruned away, "sacrifice" branches. Some of the tree contains "final" branches, and you want to keep the growth close to the trunk. Easier done with dwarf cultivars of JWP, and with JBP. Look at this post on the zuisho. You can see the bones are similar to yours; so are the options. For example, if you wanted to go this route with yours:
IMG_1154.JPG
Where the left branch will get to grow upright as a second section of trunk, and the shoots emerging from it are trained to become the branches, and the right branch becomes the primary branch; here is what you would do:
IMG_1153.JPG
1. Dig around in the soil to find the best front, based on the graft union. I using this photo assuming it's the front.
2. Identify sacrifice branches; those that can grow long to fatten up the rest of the tree.
3. Identify final branches; those that will be part of the final design, which you need to keep short and healthy.
4. Plan your trunk's route; I am using the first left branch to become the second trunk section.
4a. Along the trunk, you will identify more sacrifice branches, and some more final branches. Final branches should be on the outside of curves, and have foliage close to the trunk.
5. Here, I am calling the right branch the primary branch; wire it down, and add wiggle, and protect the inner shoots.
6. Eventually you will remove the main trunk, labeled in red.
7. The next section of trunk will already be thicker, and should have an already-identified sacrifice shoot to fatten it up.
8. Rinse & repeat...for a while.
 

Driver170

Shohin
Messages
302
Reaction score
120
Location
Scotland, Edinburgh
Ah very interesting approach i never had that as an idea but i like it.

But if i cut the trunk where you marked it i'll need to wire the left branch upright to form a new trunk yeh?
 

Driver170

Shohin
Messages
302
Reaction score
120
Location
Scotland, Edinburgh
I can take more pictures if you like?

Do you think a JWP is a good tree to start off with? I have a bonsai place sending me a few pictures of a few little JWP he just got in stock.
 

Driver170

Shohin
Messages
302
Reaction score
120
Location
Scotland, Edinburgh
Hi got more photos
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1769.JPG
    IMG_1769.JPG
    443.2 KB · Views: 82
  • IMG_1770.JPG
    IMG_1770.JPG
    428.7 KB · Views: 86

Brian Van Fleet

Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Messages
13,990
Reaction score
46,115
Location
B’ham, AL
USDA Zone
8A
Ah very interesting approach i never had that as an idea but i like it.

But if i cut the trunk where you marked it i'll need to wire the left branch upright to form a new trunk yeh?
First, using a branch to be the next section of trunk is how you build taper and movement into a trunk.
You won't need to wire the next section of trunk, it will find its way upright, but you would want to wire some wiggle into the final branches.
I can take more pictures if you like?
Do you think a JWP is a good tree to start off with? I have a bonsai place sending me a few pictures of a few little JWP he just got in stock.
I don't need more photos, I think you get the idea.

No, JWP is horrible starter material. Slow growing, unforgiving, and requires advanced techniques to keep the foliage from getting away from the trunk. The Shimpaku you posted up are infinitely easier to start with. They are relatively fast-growing, forgiving, and you can quickly see the effects of your training techniques.
 

Driver170

Shohin
Messages
302
Reaction score
120
Location
Scotland, Edinburgh
First, using a branch to be the next section of trunk is how you build taper and movement into a trunk.
You won't need to wire the next section of trunk, it will find its way upright, but you would want to wire some wiggle into the final branches.

I don't need more photos, I think you get the idea.

No, JWP is horrible starter material. Slow growing, unforgiving, and requires advanced techniques to keep the foliage from getting away from the trunk. The Shimpaku you posted up are infinitely easier to start with. They are relatively fast-growing, forgiving, and you can quickly see the effects of your training techniques.


I think i'll leave the JWP and get the juniper. He said the terracotta ones are Itoigawa and the others are shimpaku
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,885
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
Itoigawa is a cultivar of shimpaku. Get the shimpaku. Itoigawa is more sensitive, and will go juvenile very easily. Like JWP, they can make great bonsai in experienced hands, they are poor learning material.
 

BeebsBonsai

Shohin
Messages
313
Reaction score
177
Location
Hickory Hills, IL.
USDA Zone
5B
I bought this about a month ago and i'm leaving it to grow wild to fatten up the trunk and branches.

Apart from water and fertilise is there anything else i should do? Or should i just let it grow a few seasons?


Should he be worrying about inverse taper at the location where those five branches come out radially near the bottom of the trunk? It looks like it's already had some swelling. Or is it too early for him to worry about that? I checked to see if someone had brought it up before asking, but I think it's something an experienced member should lend advice on.

Also, this would help me too if I ever see this situation with a newly purchased tree.
 

Brian Van Fleet

Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Messages
13,990
Reaction score
46,115
Location
B’ham, AL
USDA Zone
8A
Should he be worrying about inverse taper at the location where those five branches come out radially near the bottom of the trunk? It looks like it's already had some swelling. Or is it too early for him to worry about that? I checked to see if someone had brought it up before asking, but I think it's something an experienced member should lend advice on.

Also, this would help me too if I ever see this situation with a newly purchased tree.
Just reduce it to 2 branches, opposite from each other: one becomes the first primary branch, and the other is the next section of trunk; like I showed in this post. Later, once it has thickened sufficiently, the present/central trunk is removed entirely and replaced by the one branch you made into the next section of trunk.
 

Driver170

Shohin
Messages
302
Reaction score
120
Location
Scotland, Edinburgh
I like your approach :) and something i'm going to do to my young JWP!

But its going to take years and years before the trunk is fat enough.

Do i need to start wiring the two bottom branches or do i leave them alone
 
Top Bottom