Mughus pine

defra

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I bought this mugo "mughus" pine at a gardencentre for €17,50

m1.jpg

Purchased a ticket on the train for it to get some advice

After some advice from Vance
I proceded with this tree

Pruned off 1/4 to 1/3 of the top foliage to open the tree up some

Discussed the tree on the train again to see if i could try to get the burlap off its in and do a repot while at it.

@Vance Wood shared his method on repotting a mugo in summer trough a video, I decided to do the same so i begun preparations

Bought me some soil :
diatomaceous earth(a bag cat litterbox stuff)
m3.jpg

velda superdensa (pond substrate)
m4.jpg
https://www.velda.com/pond-products/bottom-plants/plant-substrates/superdensa/


Big enough pond basket
m2.jpg

Repotting time

1 mixed my substrate
m5.jpg
 

defra

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2 clear the top soil of dead stuff
m6.jpg


3 cut trough the burlap and took it off
m7.jpg

4 worked the soil out and roots with a chopsticrps20170711_214519.jpg

5 sawed off about 30% of bottom rootball
m9.jpg
6 continued clearing out some old soil with this as end result
m10.jpg

7 potted up in the pond basked
m11.jpg
m12.jpg

As after care:
a shaded place for about 2-3 weeks and allot of misting and wait for the mugo to respond to my actions hope in a good way lol

Note:
Thnx @Vance Wood for being patiënt and keep on aswering all those mugo questions on the mugo train

Ps
Any result of this actions are MY own responsibillity
 

Vance Wood

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You took a lot more off the root mass than I do, but it seems all you guys do this. I hope for the best.
 

Paradox

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You took a lot more off the root mass than I do, but it seems all you guys do this. I hope for the best.

Very common newbie mistake.

I took too much off my first mugo repot as well. I was lucky, the tree lived
 

Vance Wood

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Very common newbie mistake.

I took too much off my first mugo repot as well. I was lucky, the tree lived
This one will probably survive as well. It all depends on how well the new soil was worked in between the roots. I don't wish anyone to fail at this believe me.
 

defra

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This one will probably survive as well. It all depends on how well the new soil was worked in between the roots. I don't wish anyone to fail at this believe me.

I did work in the soil pretty good with a chopstic also the core of the rootball remained and as shown in my picture i didnt remove that much roots so i do hope too itl survive

One question tough
I did repot now but when winter comes do i need to give it extra protection due the repot ?
 

herzausstahl

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Gonna take a stab at this & see if I've learned anything.

IMG_6611.JPG

The red line looks about 1/3 of the original soil was removed. The yellow shows to not tease out anymore soil than you did, in fact I would guess to remove less.

IMG_6610.JPG
Instead only loosen the outer edges (cm or 2 only in depth) as shown in yellow again. This is if course assuming I've interpreted everything correctly. Please correct me if I am wrong.
 

Soldano666

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You took a lot more off the root mass than I do, but it seems all you guys do this. I hope for the best.
Just curious Vance.
Hmm i realy was gentle on the roots
i didnt even take that much off mosthly soil

Pics
View attachment 152752 View attachment 152751
I'm hearing what defeat says. It seems when I rake out the circular roots I end up with the same kinf of result, like its almost bare rooted but were trying out asses off not too.... Small one gals don't seem to be the same but anything in a bigger can almost always ends up like defras. Also @vancewood seems you get em down into a little pot skipping the pond basket repot stage. Just an observation that's all. I hope you wernt too harsh defra, cause I'm worried i was too harsh too, I only lost one out of 3 last summer, and just repotted 5 last week.
 

defra

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Gonna take a stab at this & see if I've learned anything.

View attachment 152818

The red line looks about 1/3 of the original soil was removed. The yellow shows to not tease out anymore soil than you did, in fact I would guess to remove less.

View attachment 152819
Instead only loosen the outer edges (cm or 2 only in depth) as shown in yellow again. This is if course assuming I've interpreted everything correctly. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The red line you draw with 30% the first pic is original bottom of rootball
Where the saw is at is where i cut it off
 

Vance Wood

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Duplicate from the train:

I suppose I need to offer an apology for being a bit harsh in my response to some of you regarding the work you have done in initial root work on nursery Mugo Pines.


After going through what has been posted on the Nut in response to my work and verbal instructions on Mugos there are some problems that keep coming up that seem to be unresolved. Recently; one of you posted the after work results and was met with my reply as the root work seemed to be too much. I keep seeing this over and over so I am left to ask why this is happening.


It has always been in the past with other Pines people may be interested in making a bonsai of, root work has always been done aggressively in the method where a lot of old soil is removed. The quest to replace old soil, looked upon as the villain causing root rot, while making the transition from nursery soil to bonsai specific soil seems to be the dominant thought in people’s minds as to what should be done. Almost nothing is being addressed as to the stress placed on a root system and what this stress may cause to occur. Almost nothing is said or discussed how the root system actually does respond.


It is my fault in not recognizing this issue and addressing it as such. Considering my experience over the years has made what I do with a Mugo Pine the rule, for me, rather than the exception it is considered by the rest of the bonsai community. Apparently it is not enough to tell people that a Mugo Pine can be reduced in the middle of the summer, it is my fault for not informing in more detail how and why this is done.


It is also my fault in not revealing what to me is obvious, the information that seems to be escaping others that are dealing with this tree. Attempting to reconcile my methods with those they have learned elsewhere with other species of Pines seems to be creating a schism in application between two conflicting methods. In the case mentioned above I don’t think the tree is going to suffer ill effects but we will see. In this case the disturbance to the over-all root mass is extreme in the amount, if not in essence of the roots being destroyed by cutting off or damaged through tearing etc.. In other words a vast amount of root structure has been disturbed, more than I would have disturbed and more hair roots negatively impacted, as I would have been comfortable with.



I am not sure if nature is going to demand her pound of flesh from the event. We will deal with this as it takes place. We will rejoice when the tree responds with new growth and deal with the consequences we may have imposed on ourselves, if it does not.


So----after all of the above what are we to make of the information? We are dealing with a process that in many people’s minds is foolish, stupid, ignorant and destructive, a guaranteed tree killer. However I have been getting away with it for decades. Many claim that it is unique to where I live and the microclimate my location provides me. Over the last several years I have become aware that many of you guys are getting away with this and some of you live in New York, Illinois, Iowa and many places that are not Michigan. I have said it before and I will continue to say it: It’s not your location it’s your attention to appropriate detail, which brings up our discussion. An old axiom states that God is in the details.


Years ago I discovered while in the landscaping business when we had to transplant large trees in the middle of summer we had to reduce the top of the tree by 1/3. It was necessary to balance the diminished root system by inducing what I believe to be a healing response by cutting back the top. I know some very reputable bonsai people say this is a no-no but still, it works for me and allows me to do things during the repotting/growing season that no one else would do otherwise. However I have discovered one key point.


You have to provide a refuge for the root system. When you cut the roots by sawing off the bottom half of the soil mass, it means what it says. Pulling the lose stuff off the top of the soil mass, means what it says. This does not mean go looking for the nebari, and pull out and disturb a bunch of roots at the top of the soil ball. Those words mean exactly what they say, just pull the lose crud off the top of the soil ball and nothing else. It seems to me many think these instructions are too simple, there has to be more to it; there is not-----most of the time. The important thing is to make sure you have preserved a safe haven of undisturbed roots the tree can draw from. When the roots around the perimeter of the soil mass are cut, they are not cut to be laid out like a blanket but only interrupted from growing around in circles. When the process is done you should have a soil ball with a few gangly roots hanging around from the sides but intact for the most part.
 

defra

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Oops :eek:
Ok i fully understand now
I did some things wrong learned a bunch
According to your comment on not searching for the nebari and cut off roots at The top of the soil:

The roots i cut off at the top where 2 roots with only a verry few little roots on them
Next time i will be more carefull tough

I hope everyone learns as much as i do from this actions on this tree!
 

M. Frary

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The quest to replace old soil, looked upon as the villain causing root rot, while making the transition from nursery soil to bonsai specific soil seems to be the dominant thought in people’s minds as to what should be done
Also they have it in their minds that you can't leave nursery soil in the roots and surround it with bonsai soil.
I have quite a few trees in this state of progress. I don't have root rot problems. I don't water or fertilize them differently than trees in pure bonsai soil.
I do exactly as you say to do. I've never had a problem comprehending your instructions Vance. Nor have I lost a tree following this procedure. But on the other hand I've watched you do this in person.
 

Vance Wood

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Oops :eek:
Ok i fully understand now
I did some things wrong learned a bunch
According to your comment on not searching for the nebari and cut off roots at The top of the soil:

The roots i cut off at the top where 2 roots with only a verry few little roots on them
Next time i will be more carefull tough

I hope everyone learns as much as i do from this actions on this tree!
You're doing OK, I just don't want people to run away, I want people to succeed.
 

Vance Wood

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Also they have it in their minds that you can't leave nursery soil in the roots and surround it with bonsai soil.
I have quite a few trees in this state of progress. I don't have root rot problems. I don't water or fertilize them differently than trees in pure bonsai soil.
I do exactly as you say to do. I've never had a problem comprehending your instructions Vance. Nor have I lost a tree following this procedure. But on the other hand I've watched you do this in person.
Most trees people get their hands on are grown in caca puro and the soil I use for a bonsai is far from that crap. Put the two together and you have problems. Most Mugos are cultivated in soil that is very much like my bonsai mix.
 
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