I wonder why Thuja gets a bad rap....

Thuja's foliage is not everyone's favorite but neither is Ponderosa. On the other hand the color of Thuja foliage is really nice. It back buds. When properly wired Thuja foliage has a natural and layered look that is really pleasing. Some of the oldest trees in the world especially in the eastern US are Northern white Cedar.

I will say that I wouldn't recommend trying to grow it from seed but these trees can survive so much in nature, which creates some amazing specimens.

Lenz mentions in his book that Thuja is a relief to the bored soul.

Here is a pic of what I often see, a Thuja has fallen over long ago and each branch has become a tree over time.

Also a few pics of my most recent collections.

Not really sure what my point is but I have had Thuja on the mind lately.

That's awesome!
Yeah, I agree with you...
It's not a box store shrub that is easily transformed, but those yamadori ones are SICK!

I love them. I'm not really tuned into the preferences of the community yet as I have only been intensely involved in bonsai for a little over a year now. Thujas and other cedar frond species are lower maintenance and faster growers than hinoki cypress, and one can find amazing yamadori ones like yours. Certainly more people should try them.

I love them, I'd be at a loss as to maintaining the foliage though. I'd love to collect one but they all grow north of me, that leaves me with lowes stock. I'm sure I could turn a lowes landscape thuja into something .. okay-ish. But I have zero experience with these trees. Treat the growth tips like juniper?

Matt,

I think theres a simple answer to why it gets a bad rap. People don't know how to use it. There's hardly any information online, and the strong, extending fronds can make it difficult to miniaturize. People are either scared to try it, or when they do they get negative results. Fronds grow too much, lose proportion to the tree. Dense ramification is difficult because the fronds are so large, etc.

I don't have experience in it, but I have one in my yard that the family was going to dig up. I told them to give me two years to get it closer to something I can put in a grow box and that I would lift it for them. Their main concern was overcrowding of the actual landscape trees. (As bonsaists, we can deal with taking a tree that is overcrowding. Knowing that it's going to be killed otherwise, it really takes away our chopping inhibition). So that's what I did. The tree formed from sucker growth, I believe. Since it sprouted right next to the landscape trees. It's been growing for 7 years, and had gotten to about 6 and a half feet tall. I cut it down to roughly four feet in late May (Terrible timing, I know now but didn't then). Along with trunk chopping I would say I got rid of about 70 percent of it's growth. It was one main trunk with sparse branching, and like 10 sucker trunks growing from the base. I got rid of all the extra "trunks." eliminated anything that was shading out a significant portion of the now bare main trunk. Fast forward to now, the tree has back budded like crazy. All along it's perfectly straight, 3 inch in diameter trunk.

So, I butchered the thing, did it in the wrong month, got rid of a majority of it's growth, and it still pushed all kinds of new growth. I haven't given it any special attention either. Just let it be a tree. What does that tell me? the species Thuja Occidentalis is incredibly strong, back buds from thick, older growth, and can handle at least a fairly decent amount of foliar reduction. All things that we ascribe to have in our trees. Now, it is in the ground. I wouldn't do such a crazy amount of reduction once it is lifted, but the basis is there to realize they backbud like mad.

So, not enough information, and a lot more attention to detail with them is probably why they get a bad rap, because their back-bud, chop, and growth potential seems spectacular.

Please PM me some tips if you deal with these often. I want to know what I can do once I get it out of the ground. I will PM you photos when I get home.

Yeah i see alot of amazing specimens out there, its a shame that theyre considered underrated. but its a great alternative to the species that are found farther north, just people need to take the chance on them and get the feel for them

just.wing.it said:

That's awesome!
Yeah, I agree with you...
It's not a box store shrub that is easily transformed, but those yamadori ones are SICK!

Click to expand...

I agree about the box store comment and I would have suggested that Nursery material is a bad idea as well until @MACH5 posted...

Ryan Huston said:

I love them. I'm not really tuned into the preferences of the community yet as I have only been intensely involved in bonsai for a little over a year now. Thujas and other cedar frond species are lower maintenance and faster growers than hinoki cypress, and one can find amazing yamadori ones like yours. Certainly more people should try them.

Click to expand...

For me Thuja's seem like a lot of maintenance, at least if you want them to take on a slightly more refined look. You have to wire almost every frond right to the end, and since bigger trees usually scale in the foliage, that becomes a lot of work. Also they grow fast.

How is your apprentiship going. Dan R. is the man, I hope to visit Elandan one day. I once heard him explain how the pyramidal form of a tree is representative of youth not age. Now I always think about that.

They are tough as nails! Here they are sold "bare root" for hedges. They cut them out of the field soil with no thought of how much roots they have. You can get great starter material for under $10! I also have seedlings, and they are great fun to develop.

Toronto bonsai show that happened recently featured a few thuja beauties

If anyone has any White Cedar post em up...

Also, I just noticed that Ryan Neils Live stream is on Thuja in 2 or 3 weeks. I will have to watch that 1 or 6 times.

Here is perhaps my favorite tree in my collection.... a Thuja that I collected in spring 2016. The after picture was a couple of weeks ago since then I have started working the foliage more.

Great trees! I love the foliage

I may be liking the new one best. The sprout in the second picture - the one in the blue shirt - isn't bad either.

You need to buddy up with @amkhalid, @mattspiniken. He is 'Mr. Thuja' IMHO.

He has several significant thuja threads here on BNut. I recall him presenting a twin trunk not long after collection. It impressed me because it looked to me like crap I wouldn't keep in my back yard. He turned it into one of my all-time favorite bonsai (i.e., I didn't see that! ).



Thuja is challenging. It is not amenable to being a mini/mame/shohin bonsai is all (but a clever horticulturalist might prove me wrong again )

Aaron (amkhalid) is indeed great handling Thuja. Check out his site: http://lakeshorebonsai.com/?tag=eastern-white-cedar


Matt those are great pieces of material! Looking forward to seeing their development. I'm also looking forward to styling mine soon.

Gene Deci said:

I may be liking the new one best. The sprout in the second picture - the one in the blue shirt - isn't bad either.

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There is something about that new one that I really like. Of course I agree with the sprout in the second picture he is my favorite for sure.

mattspiniken said:

I agree about the box store comment and I would have suggested that Nursery material is a bad idea as well until @MACH5 posted...


For me Thuja's seem like a lot of maintenance, at least if you want them to take on a slightly more refined look. You have to wire almost every frond right to the end, and since bigger trees usually scale in the foliage, that becomes a lot of work. Also they grow fast.

How is your apprenticeship going? Dan R. is the man, I hope to visit Elandan one day. I once heard him explain how the pyramidal form of a tree is representative of youth not age. Now I always think about that.

Click to expand...

The apprenticeship is going great! Dan has 2 eastern white cedars, I'll be sure to get some photos of them tomorrow when I go to the garden for this thread. I thought by now I might have photos of every tree in his garden, but I guess I did not! For our area, he has far more Pacific Red Cedars (also a Thuja genus member) and Alaska Yellow Cedar (related genus). We see white cedars here in landscapes plenty though, but those yamadori around the great lakes there look amazing. Totally different from the bog western cedars we find here. Honestly, I haven't pruned any whites yet, but I've done reds and yellows and hinokis following the same general principle. It is true that they need painstaking fine wiring to be improved further, but for these western species, the rate of foliar growth is not too fast if root space is confined. I have found on the cedars I collected last fall that if they are given new root space, they will certainly take off in growth though. Alaska yellows have the added advantage of having a more profound wilting tendency once their fronds grow larger.

Anyways, here are 3 Alaska yellow cedars I have worked on this year for now. The first I helped Dan clean and prune lightly before loaning it for display at the Pacific Bonsai Museum's "Natives" exhibit back in April, ending in October. The second is an Alaska yellow cedar that I pruned harshly (~16 hours) in July and is now bouncing back. That one is affectionately called "The Wraith." The third is an Alaska yellow I pruned over 20 hours and 3 weeks and just finished last week (please excuse my shameless plug).

These Alaska yellow cedars are pruned about once every 3-5 years, depending on the density and rate of growth. The pruning is a little bit like a fractal. The most simple situation is there is a complete central frond like a Christmas tree with side shoots in opposite fashion that appear as smaller fronds. When pruning for ramification, I take out the central frond at the distance that I want the branch to change direction. I repeat this on the smaller ones. Obviously this would entail taking more off for a longer, vigorous shoot than for a smaller or less vigorous shoot. My mentality was very much clip-and-grow oriented in exercising this method. I intend to make a youtube video about the subject in the future as I got some film from my pruning last week, but I have not yet started that endeavor. Hopefully all this will be helpful to someone!

I love these trees too! The door county peninsula has tons of these with awesome nebari! Even an area near me that has a bunch of the same.

Aye,yi,yi! Some fine trees indeed. Suspect most American Masters not such mentioned snobs favoring only easy Japanese trees. However on internet BN site are some few know it all snobs who call you fool and discourage American trees innovation if at all possible.

mattspiniken said:

I have had Thuja on the mind lately.

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Sorce

Ryan Huston said:

The apprenticeship is going great! Dan has 2 eastern white cedars, I'll be sure to get some photos of them tomorrow when I go to the garden for this thread. I thought by now I might have photos of every tree in his garden, but I guess I did not! For our area, he has far more Pacific Red Cedars (also a Thuja genus member) and Alaska Yellow Cedar (related genus). We see white cedars here in landscapes plenty though, but those yamadori around the great lakes there look amazing. Totally different from the bog western cedars we find here. Honestly, I haven't pruned any whites yet, but I've done reds and yellows and hinokis following the same general principle. It is true that they need painstaking fine wiring to be improved further, but for these western species, the rate of foliar growth is not too fast if root space is confined. I have found on the cedars I collected last fall that if they are given new root space, they will certainly take off in growth though. Alaska yellows have the added advantage of having a more profound wilting tendency once their fronds grow larger.

Anyways, here are 3 Alaska yellow cedars I have worked on this year for now. The first I helped Dan clean and prune lightly before loaning it for display at the Pacific Bonsai Museum's "Natives" exhibit back in April, ending in October. The second is an Alaska yellow cedar that I pruned harshly (~16 hours) in July and is now bouncing back. That one is affectionately called "The Wraith." The third is an Alaska yellow I pruned over 20 hours and 3 weeks and just finished last week (please excuse my shameless plug).

These Alaska yellow cedars are pruned about once every 3-5 years, depending on the density and rate of growth. The pruning is a little bit like a fractal. The most simple situation is there is a complete central frond like a Christmas tree with side shoots in opposite fashion that appear as smaller fronds. When pruning for ramification, I take out the central frond at the distance that I want the branch to change direction. I repeat this on the smaller ones. Obviously this would entail taking more off for a longer, vigorous shoot than for a smaller or less vigorous shoot. My mentality was very much clip-and-grow oriented in exercising this method. I intend to make a youtube video about the subject in the future as I got some film from my pruning last week, but I have not yet started that endeavor. Hopefully all this will be helpful to someone!

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Ryan. As Dan likes to say those are some Gnarly trees! So much age.