All aboard the Mugo train!

Vance Wood · Aug 26, 2017

It's getting there. You need to remove all downward growing needles. This will open up the interior of the tree and let the light in which will promote back budding. There is still a lot that needs to be done which is what I expected with this tree. Right now you have established a profile which is good, now what needs to be done is a defining of the secondary and in some cases the tertiary branching. Each branch needs to be wired and laid out in fans with the growing tips turned up slightly. I am going to mention something here that I am going to get further flack about from the so-called powers that be,---- I believe the best wire to use on a Mugo is Aluminum, wire. There is less opportunity to damage branches putting the wire on the flexibility and softness/hardness is consistent. It does not need to be annealed. Plus you can remove it without damaging the branches, which makes it even more price effective. Does copper hole better than aluminum???? Yes but, if when wiring a branch you decide you need to move the branch the odds of damaging the branch become more likely after the wire has been moved once.

I have thought about this for a long time. I am aware that many of the new masters think aluminum is amateurish but there it a lot to say for i. I really don't care what they say about me anymore. After many years of doing it my way I have decided I am happy with the results and happy with the freedom to move things around if I have to without having to remove wire and reapply it.

M. Frary · Aug 26, 2017

Vance Wood said:
It's getting there. You need to remove all downward growing needles. This will open up the interior of the tree and let the light in which will promote back budding. There is still a lot that needs to be done which is what I expected with this tree. Right now you have established a profile which is good, now what needs to be done is a defining of the secondary and in some cases the tertiary branching. Each branch needs to be wired and laid out in fans with the growing tips turned up slightly. I am going to mention something here that I am going to get further flack about from the so-called powers that be,---- I believe the best wire to use on a Mugo is Aluminum, wire. There is less opportunity to damage branches putting the wire on the flexibility and softness/hardness is consistent. It does not need to be annealed. Plus you can remove it without damaging the branches, which makes it even more price effective. Does copper hole better than aluminum???? Yes but, if when wiring a branch you decide you need to move the branch the odds of damaging the branch become more likely after the wire has been moved once.

I have thought about this for a long time. I am aware that many of the new masters think aluminum is amateurish but there it a lot to say for i. I really don't care what they say about me anymore. After many years of doing it my way I have decided I am happy with the results and happy with the freedom to move things around if I have to without having to remove wire and reapply it.

Thanks Vance.
I cut the downward growing needles off after the pictures.
I'll take new ones.
Try to take them under better lighting too.
I used the copper because it's all I have but to me wire is wire. As long as it holds the branch in the position it doesn't matter what material it's made of.
I'll be bringing this tree back down next year so we can go over it.
Just because you sold it to me doesn't mean you won't be dealing with it for a long time.
Let's call this tree a joint Wood/Frary undertaking.
I like it too much and it means too much to me to not ask you about everything I'm going to do with it. It came from you. That carries a lot of weight with me. More than you know. It's a very special tree to me.

Soldano666 · Aug 26, 2017

Vance Wood said:
The bow tie pruning or reduction of emerging growth and needles should be done in July so that the expenditure of energy will go into forming new buds. You can remove all downward growing needles and small branches now. I would save removing the upward growing needles till the beginning of Spring now.

Just to be sure we are on the same page, I am trimming the downward growing needles on this years shoots?

Soldano666 · Aug 26, 2017

And that mugo it the titties @M.Frary I'd be stoked to have a tree from vance. Maybe if he offers some up I'd take 2 right off the rip

Vance Wood · Aug 26, 2017

Soldano666 said:
Just to be sure we are on the same page, I am trimming the downward growing needles on this years shoots?

Yesssssss. You could could cut the upward growing as well but be careful.

Vance Wood · Aug 26, 2017

Vance Wood said:
Yesssssss. You could could cut the upward growing as well but be careful.

I had a student in a workshop one time remove all of the needles because they didn't understand what I was saying.----So, don't do that.

Paulpash · Aug 26, 2017

Vance Wood said:
I had a student in a workshop one time remove all of the needles because they didn't understand what I was saying.----So, don't do that.

Good job you didn't say 'it could do with losing a limb' - things could have got ugly.

Soldano666 · Aug 26, 2017

Vance Wood said:
Yesssssss. You could could cut the upward growing as well but be careful.

So I removed some of the downward needles. It diddnt get too crazy basically just a couple branches on the left side, I came to the conclusion that the top of this tree needs some attetion, as you can see it has a lot of branching and in the second pic you can see where the leader was cut, and has new buds... Too many new buds... Now I swear I've been paying attention, but when and how do we address this issue? The following tree was repotted last summer, had minor branch selection in the spring mostly reducing whorls, and about 40% shoots trimmed this summer. When do I reduce the amount of apex buds? Is this a winter early spring activity? Or will I strengthen buds i want to keep by reducing ones I dont into the fall? Or should I stick to downward growing needles and forget about it til next year?

Vance Wood · Aug 26, 2017

Reduce the amount of new and excess buds in early spring before the tree starts to move. Each branch should have two buds to develop new growth at the ends. Buds down the branches are another issue. They should remain. You leave them through the winter because if you remove in the fall it is likely the tree will respond by producing more of them.

Soldano666 · Aug 26, 2017

Vance Wood said:
Reduce the amount of new and excess buds in early spring before the tree starts to move. Each branch should have two buds to develop new growth at the ends. Buds down the branches are another issue. They should remain. You leave them through the winter because if you remove in the fall it is likely the tree will respond by producing more of them.

Notes taken, thanks again @Vance Wood

sorce · Aug 26, 2017

Vance Wood said:
it is likely the tree will respond by producing more of them

Well....
This is great news for me....

I accidentally, no let me be honest.....

I furked up bad, knocking two perfectly located buds on one of the second branch of one of my best new starts.....

Cuz i was rushing! Moron!

Thought I was out 2 years!

..........

While I'm waiting for them buds....

Let's watch some roots grow on another!

My Dabber Nugo! The super eff rooted! This one hasn't stopped issuing roots that make it out the basket since it was hacked and repotted!

Sorce

Vance Wood · Aug 26, 2017

Your tree is still pretty young and forgiving. It will adapt as long as there are some needles there,-- there are buds as well. These are epicormic buds, the buds that reside between the fascicle of the two needles.

KiwiPlantGuy · Aug 26, 2017

Pine mugo

KiwiPlantGuy
Aug 26, 2017

View media item 3628
Hi all,
Hopefully there is still room on the Mugo train for my tree?.
I am afraid I murdered it before realizing pines don't like being hacked too much.
As I have only read 10 pages out of the 120 of this thread I have lots to learn.
The tree was badly rootbound in a nursery bag so I cut off all the roots that were wrapped around and around the bag, and one surface root that was strangling the trunk. I didn't remove much rootball ( 1/3 maybe) and kept all the good fungi.
Unfortunately in my haste and excitement I probably have cut lots too much and need to buy another to try again. My thinking was to force it to backbud / new shoots but maybe this tree doesn't have enough needles for my optimistic thoughts.
There are no dwarf mugo cultivars in nursery production here that I have found. Only this bigger mugo style.
Thoughts/opinions welcome and my growing media composes of pine bark, pumice, perlite, and control release fertilizer for the next couple of years.
Regards, Charles

sorce · Aug 26, 2017

KiwiPlantGuy said:
Thoughts

I think if you water it about 20% more than you think you should, it'll be fine!

You see no freeze there?

@Bonsai Nut recently posted a thing about how some trees in Socal go a summer dormant....
More tropical thing but....

If those live by you at all....
In the "what the fuck is HVAC" climate I read about....

I would highly consider they have an odd dormancy, which may mean a winter repotting so kinda as the train seems to travel....like your winter...is it?
That would be a train trip!

But seriously....
Think more highly of it and it's survival...

And if you don't know anyone who has been successful with these there...
You MUST find your proper repotting season.

Best get back to the store I reckon!

Sorce

Bonsai Nut · Aug 26, 2017

sorce said:
@Bonsai Nut recently posted a thing about how some trees in Socal go a summer dormant

This is referring to native trees in the wild here. We get our last rain of the season in march and often wont see another drop until november. Many natives grow from Feb until June... and then stop growing during the heat of the summer. In some cases this period of summer dormany is so deep that if you water during the summer you will kill the plant - the exact opposite of what you would expect.

sorce · Aug 26, 2017

Bonsai Nut said:
exact opposite of what you would expect.

Yes!

I was just ranting about it in a PM!
So I'm on fire!

Summer repotting ,

Bonsai Nut said:
- the exact opposite of what you would expect.

Has changed my life!

And I owe it all to Vance!

2 spruce.
2 mugo.
4 boxwood.
1 barberry.

All successfully repotted this summer!

I've lost four barberry to spring repot.
2 or 3 boxwood.

Going back to try it on burning bush, and everything else I've always tried and failed with in spring!

Wow!

This shit gets sooooooo bad!

And she thinks Cuz I'm not working the last couple weeks....
"You don't care about my goals"

Shiiiiiitttt....

Oh yes I want a house!

I need a bigger yard!
And a flat roof!

Happy dance!

Sorce

KiwiPlantGuy · Aug 26, 2017

Bonsai Nut said:
This is referring to native trees in the wild here. We get our last rain of the season in march and often wont see another drop until november. Many natives grow from Feb until June... and then stop growing during the heat of the summer. In some cases this period of summer dormany is so deep that if you water during the summer you will kill the plant - the exact opposite of what you would expect.

Ok thanks to Sorce and Bonsainut for their posts. Lots to think about.
Lol, I go looking for another old mugo ( as I have 3-4 babies potted on) to practice on.
Sorce, you are correct - late Winter here- I sniff Spring a bit more now than last month.
My growing much like Northern temperate summer with very dry from November thru April, and most of our rain in Winter/Spring. 25 inches rain a year with temps from -5 - 35 degrees Celsius. Not really any snow these later winters now.
So you guys are suggesting this tree and pines in general get watered heaps more than I think in Winter/Spring and keep them alive/ less watered through Summer dormancy etc? Did I understand correctly?
Charles

sorce · Aug 26, 2017

KiwiPlantGuy said:
So you guys

I'm only playing climate mediator cause I'm on such a kick of how much it matters lately!

Especially in regards to Mugbro!

Lol! I`m gonna develope one and call it..

Pinus Mugbro!

European Pinus!

Sorce

petegreg · Aug 27, 2017

I'm happy to see the train is rock'n rolling.
Just an update. My largest mugo emergency repotted in spring is doing fine. As Vance adviced I shoot pruned in July, but not all the tree, just selectively - the top that was almost lost remains untouched and the rest was pruned from "the outer perimeter".

All pruned terminals start showing a pair of newly forming buds for next season and some back budding is present too, although not expected.

Some wounds are about being closed.

Plus some two branches were shortened this way...

This is how I'm trying to build the tops.

The tallest trunk will be left to grow for more years, I need a mass to be able to go on, compact and flatten it.

petegreg · Aug 27, 2017

Ah, and this is my this year's addition. Acquired a little bit late for candle pruning. So reduced, forks cleaned, chopped and wired. I cut the leader flush just to see what will happen. The second right branch is too heavy so I guess the trunk needs to be chopped lower and re-grown from the rear branch.

All aboard the Mugo train!

Lord Mugo

Bonsai Godzilla

Omono

Omono

Lord Mugo

Lord Mugo

Masterpiece

Omono

Lord Mugo

Omono

Nonsense Rascal

Lord Mugo

Omono

Nonsense Rascal

Nuttier than your average Nut

Nonsense Rascal

Omono

Nonsense Rascal

Masterpiece

Masterpiece

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