Kigae

Smoke

Smoke

Ignore-Amus
Messages
11,668
Reaction score
20,726
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
Kigae; The Japanese term for "changing clothes"

The term in regular usage is to change the foliage from an unsuitable foliage tree to a suitable foliage tree. Most times this tends to be replacing coarse California juniper with Kishu or Itowigawa foliage.

In my case it is a replacing all the branches on a pines tree styled elm to a more suitable spreading oak style elm. So the tree as bought was the typical prune for taper style trunk. very easy to mass produce this style of trunk as branches are cut off and the tree chopped or pruned regularly to keep the taper in check.
DSC_01570001.JPG

This tree was started with wire around the trunk and allowed to bite in and go on to be consumed by the scar tissue and help swell the trunk quickly. I negan to try and turn this into a literati style tree.
DSC_00080001.JPG
DSC_00780001.JPG
DSC_00030001.JPG
 
Smoke

Smoke

Ignore-Amus
Messages
11,668
Reaction score
20,726
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
Over the couple of seasons it took to get to this point, I have made changes in my thinking about having a more diverse look to my trees. I have many with this pointy trunk syndrome and longed for a more tree looking shape. So Last year I took measures to help make a more tree like shape into this tree and begin its journey on a elm looking like an elm.

How am I doing so far????
DSC_0008.JPG
 
Smoke

Smoke

Ignore-Amus
Messages
11,668
Reaction score
20,726
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
Tentakelaertje said:
Pretty fucking good actually. I like what you are doing Al!

If you don't mind:

View attachment 160461
Click to expand...
Nice bu you went right back to the right branch, left branch back branch paradigm. I don't want that. Look how you took the top off and made it pointy again. This is how we are taught with bonsai and how we get caught up in the cliche! This is NOT how elm trees grow....
 
Velodog2

Velodog2

Chumono
Messages
950
Reaction score
2,066
Location
Central Maryland
This trunk is rugged and irregular and won't look quite right until the branches match with similar character.

I appreciate what you are trying to do here with branch placement but the first branch emerging front dead-center is too much for me.
 
just.wing.it

just.wing.it

Deadwood Head
Messages
12,141
Reaction score
17,549
Location
Just South of the Mason Dixon
USDA Zone
6B
I'm diggin that turquoise pot!

The elm is interesting...

The problem I see with your vision of an old oakish looking deciduous tree is, that trunk...
It's a fatty for its size, with great movement....
But what I think of when I think old spreading oakish trees is one fat trunk that splits into smaller diameter subtrunks, which move in an "up and out" direction, from which you build branching...
Not sure how you can attain that image with this tree....IMHO, as much as we all love naturalistic style bonsai, this tree would look cooler as something more abstract, or pine style.

I am sure this isn't news to you, of course....and I enjoy how you make good bonsai related conversation with your threads. So that's my 2¢ :cool:
Thanks.
 
Tentakelaertje

Tentakelaertje

Omono
Messages
1,336
Reaction score
1,917
Location
Brabant, Netherlands
Actually the only thing I've done is change the direction of the branches a bit, remove the awkward downbending branch and replace the umbrella apex.
If you look at the apex, you see that it consists of the area I rectangled with red. It is a little pointier than the current one, but also 1000% more natural. It is very easy to make it less pointy though.

20170912_172616.jpg

It is hard to see 3d on a photo, especially when using the phone, so the virt is probably a bit off.
I marked all the branches that are as the tree sits now with blue. At least, all of the branches I can see. Right now the tree does not look like how a real elm grows.

20170912_161650.jpg


I'm curious what would have caused the downbending branch to grow like that, what is the story behind it?
Also, you say you don't want the left-right branch paradigm, but I'm a bit lost on what you do want.
Can you explain please?
And could you make a pic of the tree turned a little to the left? I'd like to see it with the first branch coming from the side of the trunk.
 

Attachments

  • 20170912_172616.jpg
    20170912_172616.jpg
    51.4 KB · Views: 0
  • 20170912_172616.jpg
    20170912_172616.jpg
    51.4 KB · Views: 0
Smoke

Smoke

Ignore-Amus
Messages
11,668
Reaction score
20,726
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
Well I'll just play with it for another couple years and see if I can get some lipstick to stick.... Oh I'm not hindered..only inspired.
 
Smoke

Smoke

Ignore-Amus
Messages
11,668
Reaction score
20,726
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
Tentakelaertje said:
Actually the only thing I've done is change the direction of the branches a bit, remove the awkward downbending branch and replace the umbrella apex.
If you look at the apex, you see that it consists of the area I rectangled with red. It is a little pointier than the current one, but also 1000% more natural. It is very easy to make it less pointy though.

View attachment 160475

It is hard to see 3d on a photo, especially when using the phone, so the virt is probably a bit off.
I marked all the branches that are as the tree sits now with blue. At least, all of the branches I can see. Right now the tree does not look like how a real elm grows.

View attachment 160473


I'm curious what would have caused the downbending branch to grow like that, what is the story behind it?
Also, you say you don't want the left-right branch paradigm, but I'm a bit lost on what you do want.
Can you explain please?
And could you make a pic of the tree turned a little to the left? I'd like to see it with the first branch coming from the side of the trunk.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your hard work in trying to make a better tree from the images presented. It is not being shown here with an effort to gleen ideas from the forum, it is shown here so that those less educated can see the progress over a number of years and how something grown one way can and will be turned into something more desirable. This has been just one season of an idea. Who knows what the next few seasons will bear, besides I haven't even got ruthless with it yet:D
 
Tentakelaertje

Tentakelaertje

Omono
Messages
1,336
Reaction score
1,917
Location
Brabant, Netherlands
Smoke said:
Thank you for your hard work in trying to make a better tree from the images presented. It is not being shown here with an effort to gleen ideas from the forum, it is shown here so that those less educated can see the progress over a number of years and how something grown one way can and will be turned into something more desirable. This has been just one season of an idea. Who knows what the next few seasons will bear, besides I haven't even got ruthless with it yet:D
Click to expand...

Ahaaa okay, now I get it lol. The next few seasons will bear good stuff probably, seeing the step forward this tree has made already. I'm still curious about the downward growing branch story though. A couple of my trees have that too, but so far I have not found/made up a believable story on why they grow so. Would you care to elaborate please?
Thanks for posting & take care
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom