True statement for Scots pine in the UK?

M. Frary said:

By July there aren't candles. They are shoots with needles hardened off.
These get cut back or removed to induce back budding.
This is done from late June to mid August here.

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Yea "candles" is the wrong term for JBP as well. When we cut those off in July, they are also shoots with hardened needles.
They are cut earlier though, usually end of June/first week of July
Yet its called "candle cutting" for some odd reason

M. Frary said:

I'm thinking of buying some seedlings to grow out.
Do you order them or is there a nursery to go buy young Scots and Mugo.
I'll be collecting some too but I like the thought of being able to grow these out too. Total control every step of the way.

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I get them from a commercial grower on the west side of the state. You need a nursery license to buy from them. I usually buy the potted liners which are already about five years old. I am thinking of going out there later because I have almost no Scotts Pines left and need to get some more.

Paradox said:

Yea "candles" is the wrong term for JBP as well. When we cut those off in July, they are also shoots with hardened needles.
They are cut earlier though, usually end of June/first week of July
Yet its called "candle cutting" for some odd reason

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It's called candle cutting or pinching or shoot removal and sadly the terms seem to be used so loosely that most of the time we don't know what anyone is talking about. Do they use fingers, scissors, tweezers, finger nails or a lawn mower, who knows. I have been trying to get people, especially those who sell and teach, to get together and solidify their terminology. I tried to get one of our new members to describe what he was doing to the tree when he mentioned pinching. I think in the end I scared him off fearing he was going to be humiliated, which was not my intent, he seems to have bailed. (Driver 170)

Vance Wood said:

It's called candle cutting or pinching or shoot removal and sadly the terms seem to be used so loosely that most of the time we don't know what anyone is talking about. Do they use fingers, scissors, tweezers, finger nails or a lawn mower, who knows. I have been trying to get people, especially those who sell and teach, to get together and solidify their terminology. I tried to get one of our new members to describe what he was doing to the tree when he mentioned pinching. I think in the end I scared him off fearing he was going to be humiliated, which was not my intent, he seems to have bailed. (Driver 170)

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I agree, its very frustrating trying to keep it all straight. There have been times that I have been to the point of contemplating giving it all up because as soon as I think I understand something, I find out its the opposite or something else.

Paradox said:

I agree, its very frustrating trying to keep it all straight. There have been times that I have been to the point of contemplating giving it all up because as soon as I think I understand something, I find out its the opposite or something else.

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That's why I know what I know and do what I do, for the same reason. The problem is; I am as stubborn as hell and not much influenced by those who are so sure they are right that they don't know when they are wrong or willing to admit it. I am virtually self taught. I have read all the books until I got to a point where I realized that most of them were just the same old crap over and over. I have never had a formal bonsai education or spent quality time with anyone considered a master by today's standards. Most of these people consider me a pariah and I have been stabbed in the back by more than a few of them.

Vance Wood said:

That's why I know what I know and do what I do, for the same reason. The problem is; I am as stubborn as hell and not much influenced by those who are so sure they are right that they don't know when they are wrong or willing to admit it. I am virtually self taught. I have read all the books until I got to a point where I realized that most of them were just the same old crap over and over. I have never had a formal bonsai education or spent quality time with anyone considered a master by today's standards. Most of these people consider me a pariah and I have been stabbed in the back by more than a few of them.

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The best way, the only way, the true way......teach yourself. Lot's of folk floating around that have done a couple of years in Japan that know how to wire and nothing else.

Vance Wood said:

It's called candle cutting or pinching or shoot removal and sadly the terms seem to be used so loosely that most of the time we don't know what anyone is talking about. Do they use fingers, scissors, tweezers, finger nails or a lawn mower, who knows. I have been trying to get people, especially those who sell and teach, to get together and solidify their terminology. I tried to get one of our new members to describe what he was doing to the tree when he mentioned pinching. I think in the end I scared him off fearing he was going to be humiliated, which was not my intent, he seems to have bailed. (Driver 170)

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Complete is agreement with above words. No end of aggravation at imprecise term used here(pinching)that is finger pinching in this mind. Fine pruning scissor is only candle/sprout pruner used here.

I have removed all visible buds on a P. sylvestris in March. In June there were new buds that have developed into candles/shoots. ( 4-5 old tree in local forest )

In the beggining of July I have cut off this years shoots on a small vigorous P.sylvestris. By now some of the newly created buds have developed into candles.

The trees within a single species are as much different as most of us on this forum. We all have some basic needs in common but then there is a lot of extras that make as unique. Why should be any other organism different? Why should they react on the same treatment in the same way? There are so many factors that have an impact on the result. I am just trying to understand my trees.

Vance Wood said:

It's called candle cutting or pinching or shoot removal and sadly the terms seem to be used so loosely that most of the time we don't know what anyone is talking about. Do they use fingers, scissors, tweezers, finger nails or a lawn mower, who knows. I have been trying to get people, especially those who sell and teach, to get together and solidify their terminology. I tried to get one of our new members to describe what he was doing to the tree when he mentioned pinching. I think in the end I scared him off fearing he was going to be humiliated, which was not my intent, he seems to have bailed. (Driver 170)

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I’m still here. I’m eager to learn and correct my terminology. I’m all ears!!!

Driver170 said:

I’m still here. I’m eager to learn and correct my terminology. I’m all ears!!!

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Cannot correct what we don't know as practice from you. If you could describe the process you use, when you do it, and what you expect to have happen.

Vance Wood said:

Cannot correct what we don't know as practice from you. If you could describe the process you use, when you do it, and what you expect to have happen.

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He stated in post #10 that he is "Just learning theory". Seems like he is just asking questions and has not put any of this into practice yet so he cant describe what he does.

Yeh i already stated this. I do have a small scots pine so when next year comes i would like to know what to do.

That Aussie Ryan N. Video in the Scots thread is the best general attack plan and understanding of Scots IMO..

As always..

Adjust for climate....

Done.

Sorce

Paradox said:

He stated in post #10 that he is "Just learning theory". Seems like he is just asking questions and has not put any of this into practice yet so he cant describe what he does.

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What do I have to do to convince people I am not trying to pilory Driver 170 who wrote: The tree is very healthy and strong but regular candle pinching has reduced the back budding over years. Scots pines in the UK should be grown untouched until August when new growth is pruned back to balance the vigour. I am only trying to understand what he knows and how he perceives what he knows. At this point every body keeps chiming in with their ideas of what he is saying. HOLY CRAP!!!! What's wrong with this????? I am not accusing him of blasphemy or some other unforgivable sin----- and I still don't know what he is asking specifically or what he has been doing either.

The two sentences above puts it into a nut shell, he does have some sort of idea about some techniques but not how they have been used---- or how he has used them if he has used them at all, his words. Sandy here is the crux of my problem: Seems like he is just asking questions and has not put any of this into practice yet so he cant describe what he does****Your words, you don't know this for sure and why can't he say so himself? I am only looking to help, not misdirect or confuse, but as for me, if I don't know what road he is on I cannot find a direction for him.

No Vance, you are not reading. That is the problem.

Vance Wood said:

What do I have to do to convince people I am not trying to pilory Driver 170 who wrote: The tree is very healthy and strong but regular candle pinching has reduced the back budding over years. Scots pines in the UK should be grown untouched until August when new growth is pruned back to balance the vigour.

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It is not clear, but this is part of a statement that he read and quoted from somewhere else. This is not a description of his tree.

I am only trying to understand what he knows and how he perceives what he knows. At this point every body keeps chiming in with their ideas of what he is saying. HOLY CRAP!!!! What's wrong with this????? I am not accusing him of blasphemy or some other unforgivable sin----- and I still don't know what he is asking specifically or what he has been doing either.

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He is asking if the above statement in bold red is true.

The two sentences above puts it into a nut shell, he does have some sort of idea about some techniques but not how they have been used---- or how he has used them if he has used them at all, his words. Sandy here is the crux of my problem:

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Seems like he is just asking questions and has not put any of this into practice yet so he cant describe what he does****Your words, you don't know this for sure and why can't he say so himself? I am only looking to help, not misdirect or confuse, but as for me, if I don't know what road he is on I cannot find a direction for him.

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I do know because thats what he stated in post #10. He is asking questions to learn. He repeated that again 2 posts above this one. He wants to know if what he posted in the very first post is a true statement or not. He said it 2x but I guess it was not clear to you.

He has a tree but has not done anything yet. He is trying to learn so that he can do it right when the time comes.

He can't tell you what he's done because he has not done anything. He isn't sure what is right.

I would suggest that you proceed as though he doesn't know anything.

@Driver170

I am sorry to be speaking for you, but somehow your question is not getting across clearly. It's a common problem with threads that get multiple pages long.
Just trying to help you get the info you need.

I'm sorry Sandy but you are wrong: Post #1 in it's entiretyFrom a collection we purchased recently. This pine has obviously been in bonsai training for many years. The tree is very healthy and strong but regular candle pinching has reduced the back budding over years. Scots pines in the UK should be grown untouched until August when new growth is pruned back to balance the vigour. Doing this increases the vigour and will dramatically increase the back budding, which is now beginning to happen. A beautiful trunk with craggy bark and a good nebari. Post #10:I’m just learning the theory sorry.

I mean, you just come in and pinch the candle (single flush pine) but of course thinking about the aesthetics side also when applying the horticultural practise----He seems to be quoting something he knows on a rudementary level and your assumption that he knows nothing may be true, but I have been trying to get at what he does know for sure. According to the two post you have singled out he has been telling me what I want to know. So as it goes now I don't see how what you are doing helps him any way and my attempts to do so seem to meet with your attempts to suggest that I know nothing.

I am going to suggest that Driver 71 share a private discussion with me away from the scrutiny of mixed minds.

Whatever Vance.

The title of the thread clearly asks if the statement in the first post is true or not.
@Driver170, where did that statement come from?

Quoting/reading post #1 without the title leads it to be taken out of context. It's confusing because it mentions a tree but there is no tree pictured.

Driver clearly states he is learning and wants clarification on what is stated in the first post.



Driver, please clarify.....so we can put this conspiracy theory behind us

Driver170 said:

Scot's pine appreciates regular feeding but only very lightly. Also it is important to provide a little feed about once a month throughout the winter during warmer spells of weather. The tree will appreciate being allowed to dry out just a little between watering or the foliage colour will begin to fade to a sickly yellow/green.

From a collection we purchased recently. This pine has obviously been in bonsai training for many years. The tree is very healthy and strong but regular candle pinching has reduced the back budding over years. Scots pines in the UK should be grown untouched until August when new growth is pruned back to balance the vigour. Doing this increases the vigour and will dramatically increase the back budding, which is now beginning to happen. A beautiful trunk with craggy bark and a good nebari.

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@Vance Wood driver should have identified this quoted as a quote from Graham potters website....

Which I believe it is.

Problem and misunderstandings corrected.

Web Wank 1o1 driver...

Proper quotes and references!

Zoom$

Sorce

I have said what I will do, I will discuss this with the OP privately so that there is no question about what is said to whom and who said it.