Ancient Bonsai vs Todays Bonsai...

Adair M

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My point is that the so-called green helmet (which you brought up by the way) is the lazy man's way of copying nature. That most wild windswept junipers in the sierras do not have a neat green helmet. Certainly no wild shimpaku did either. That most juniper bonsai (most conifers in fact) are made with the green helmet because it's easy. That, as Vance mentioned, many beautifully wild yamadori junipers are ruined by being domesticated by topping them with a green helmet. So much so that all you can see is a trunk with some deadwood and a green helmet and that is pretty crappy done like that (IMO). That the models for this modern styling come from other bonsai and not real trees and because of that the original appreciation has been refined out of existence. Another example; The Japanese practice of polishing juniper trunks has put much pressure on every other juniper grower to do the same because it attracts attention but unfortunately detracts from the (once seen as) valuable wabi.
And yes before you say it, everyone can do and say what ever the hell they like....which is what I'm doing. :D
Michael, you are certainly allowed to have an opinion, but opinions don’t equal facts. The Sierra Junipers most certainly do form “green helmets”!

In case you missed it, my “Oh no! another green helmet” Post was sarcasm. So many say that @green helmets are not natural.

Dude, I was just up on the mountain about a month ago. The pictures I posted are ones I took, or my hiking companions took. Unless the tree has suffered recent trauma ( within the past 100 years or so) they form domed apexes.

Obviously, you need a few more pictures:

This one is a juniper branch from below, looking up. Check out the branch structure. It made a pretty amazing pad of foliage, with all the foliage on top of the branch structure:

E9255A99-D5FE-4679-A3EE-CFCB7E2DEF91.jpeg

F3CED413-FEDF-46E1-B31A-A44DA4FE0360.jpeg

E1A61013-6EC0-4AF6-B806-30422B23E5DC.jpeg

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803A6F6F-EB6D-4433-ABC7-C9661CD3E511.jpeg

841F513D-A59F-4D15-842C-1267DF74BE91.jpeg
 

chicago1980

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Michael, you are certainly allowed to have an opinion, but opinions don’t equal facts. The Sierra Junipers most certainly do form “green helmets”!

In case you missed it, my “Oh no! another green helmet” Post was sarcasm. So many say that @green helmets are not natural.

Dude, I was just up on the mountain about a month ago. The pictures I posted are ones I took, or my hiking companions took. Unless the tree has suffered recent trauma ( within the past 100 years or so) they form domed apexes.

Obviously, you need a few more pictures:

This one is a juniper branch from below, looking up. Check out the branch structure. It made a pretty amazing pad of foliage, with all the foliage on top of the branch structure:

View attachment 162974

View attachment 162975

View attachment 162976

View attachment 162977

View attachment 162978

View attachment 162979

View attachment 162980
Beautiful tree's! Sierra's are awesome!
 

Adair M

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By the way, take a close look at the live vein on this picture:

9D9DF57E-1C08-4E16-8F20-616326E19D72.jpeg

It’s not perfectly smooth, but the wind does blow away the loose flakey bark. And look, the cinnamon color of the live vein contrasts nicely against the white deadwood. Naturally white deadwood!

Polishing the trunk, and using lime sulphur is our way to try to achieve the same (or at least similiar) effect with our bonsai. The actual deadwood, is amazing to see up close. There is no way to replicate it.
 

Adair M

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Thanks Adair: These trees are so beautiful you can almost taste them. It's nice to see the soul of bonsai.
There were some pretty amazing pines up there, too.

The Jeffrey Pine has amazing bark. Up close, it smells like vanilla!

2764FF42-9D64-4DDB-B7A1-AB77F1416DA7.jpeg

Looking up:

61C73A29-7A21-4966-8266-8115359F6D7F.jpeg

Another one:

A6CD0249-4B1E-4463-ACF7-7F2AAA89D64C.jpeg

Want to see some smaller ones? How about this clump?

C12422E7-E8A2-4988-A7F9-0B98F45637D8.jpeg

Look how small the needles reduce;

273CECD9-3C15-4F3E-8AD3-39DA81969B50.jpeg

The roots on that one are splitting that rock!
 

MichaelS

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By the way, take a close look at the live vein on this picture:

View attachment 162981

It’s not perfectly smooth, but the wind does blow away the loose flakey bark. And look, the cinnamon color of the live vein contrasts nicely against the white deadwood. Naturally white deadwood!

Polishing the trunk, and using lime sulphur is our way to try to achieve the same (or at least similiar) effect with our bonsai. The actual deadwood, is amazing to see up close. There is no way to replicate it.
We must be talking about 2 different things Adair. I don't see any green helmets in your pictures.

Here are some trees from more than 40 years ago.
P1090936 - Copy.JPG
P1090937 - Copy.JPG
P1090946 - Copy.JPG
P1090942 - Copy (2).JPG
P1090945 - Copy.JPG

And here are some of todays trees...

bbj.JPG

chjun3.JPG

chjun2.JPG


Tell me you can spot the difference creeping in.
 

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MichaelS

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By the way, take a close look at the live vein on this picture:

View attachment 162981

It’s not perfectly smooth, but the wind does blow away the loose flakey bark. And look, the cinnamon color of the live vein contrasts nicely against the white deadwood. Naturally white deadwood!

Polishing the trunk, and using lime sulphur is our way to try to achieve the same (or at least similiar) effect with our bonsai. The actual deadwood, is amazing to see up close. There is no way to replicate it.
We must be talking about 2 different things Adair. I don't see any green helmets in your pictures.
 

MichaelS

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By the way, take a close look at the live vein on this picture:

View attachment 162981

It’s not perfectly smooth, but the wind does blow away the loose flakey bark. And look, the cinnamon color of the live vein contrasts nicely against the white deadwood. Naturally white deadwood!

Polishing the trunk, and using lime sulphur is our way to try to achieve the same (or at least similiar) effect with our bonsai. The actual deadwood, is amazing to see up close. There is no way to replicate it.
We must be talking about 2 different things Adair. I don't see any green helmets in your pictures.
 

MichaelS

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sorry about all the double posting. Not sure what the hell's going on there!

Some more modern ''masterpieces''
JPJ.JPG

mb2.JPG

mb3.JPG

mj1.JPG

If you still don't get what I'm talking about, I give up.
 
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MichaelS

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Owner: Mr. Hajime Umesawa. A modest and honest person. Totally committed to the mountain collected Shimpaku, and you will see the air-layer of “Hiryu” here.
Because he believes that the Shimpaku bonsai today “are crafted too much,” he is working hard not to spoil the natural atmosphere of these trees from the mountains
 

Anthony

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I see what you mean @MichaelS ,

as I always ask, does any Japanese Master actually study Art / Sculpture or are
we always looking at ROTE learning ?

Seems to be spreading to North America as more more students
return to the US.

Well I will be looking to see how Sifu [ Adair ] uses the visual information
to work on his trees.
Will require sensitivity to pieces, as the diftwood is bombastic and very untidy,
and is Nature / Natural, but not balanced.
To see the hidden patterns.

Thanks to Sifu for putting up the images. Very lucky to have such excellent
examples.
Good Day
Anthony

*Hmm, to make a Bonsai feel natural and yet harmoniously balanced for the
human eye.
Now that is mastery.
 

Bolero

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Thanks to all that take the Time and Effort to Post up their Pictures of "Growing Wild Juniper & Pine"

In the meantime, during some research. I came across this Site which I found quite interesting, I advise all to check it out...
after viewing a picture scroll down to "Next Species"

http://www.treegirl.org/tallowood.html
 

Vance Wood

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We must be talking about 2 different things Adair. I don't see any green helmets in your pictures.

Here are some trees from more than 40 years ago.
View attachment 163008
View attachment 163009
View attachment 163010
View attachment 163011
View attachment 163012

And here are some of todays trees...

View attachment 163013

View attachment 163014

View attachment 163015


Tell me you can spot the difference creeping in.
I believe that sometimes we see what we want to see or expect to see. The first Juniper you posted was shown in Yoshimura book back in the 1950's, it was restyled by Kimura about 20 years ago making it a bit more stylized but still not losing it's natural beauty. From the photos you have shown and those from the wild trees, things seem to be going in two different directions highlighting two extremes; one being the highly stylized ShimpI believed styled by Bjorn Bornholm to a tree that is more like those we have seen from the mountain pictures. I believe this tree was also styled by Bjorn? However the green helmetish tree reflects more of how I view the subject, the tree is stylized just enough to make the image look remarkable but not overpower it's natural beauty.bbj.jpgchjun2.jpg
 

Bolero

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Hello Vance, will you be attending next Weds Ann Arbor Society/Four Seasons Bonsai featuring Walter Pall...???
 

Adair M

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I believe that sometimes we see what we want to see or expect to see. The first Juniper you posted was shown in Yoshimura book back in the 1950's, it was restyled by Kimura about 20 years ago making it a bit more stylized but still not losing it's natural beauty. From the photos you have shown and those from the wild trees, things seem to be going in two different directions highlighting two extremes; one being the highly stylized ShimpI believed styled by Bjorn Bornholm to a tree that is more like those we have seen from the mountain pictures. I believe this tree was also styled by Bjorn? However the green helmetish tree reflects more of how I view the subject, the tree is stylized just enough to make the image look remarkable but not overpower it's natural beauty.View attachment 163046View attachment 163047
Yes, I agree that the first picture looks artificial.

The second one, however, looks very natural to my eye.
 

Vance Wood

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Yes, I agree that the first picture looks artificial.

The second one, however, looks very natural to my eye.
Agree 1oo% on both assessments.
Hello Vance, will you be attending next Weds Ann Arbor Society/Four Seasons Bonsai featuring Walter Pall...???

I do not know yet. I don't do well driving at night anymore. We'll see.
 

Giga

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By the way, take a close look at the live vein on this picture:

View attachment 162981

It’s not perfectly smooth, but the wind does blow away the loose flakey bark. And look, the cinnamon color of the live vein contrasts nicely against the white deadwood. Naturally white deadwood!

Polishing the trunk, and using lime sulphur is our way to try to achieve the same (or at least similiar) effect with our bonsai. The actual deadwood, is amazing to see up close. There is no way to replicate it.

think you have a pot big enough? :rolleyes:
 

Adair M

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think you have a pot big enough? :rolleyes:
Uncollectable.

The roots run thru cracks in th rock and run down the mountain 40 to 60 feet! It’s as if those roots are acting as the “trunk”, and all we see up at the top is the apex!
 
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