The future of our planet

Vance Wood

Lord Mugo
Messages
14,002
Reaction score
16,913
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
5-6
"According to you anyone that has a pro envionment stance is left wing liberal."

What is a pro envionment stance?

BTW you spelled environment incorrectly.

A_E
No, I believe that the planet is warming but I do not believe it is totally due to human activity. Other wise how do you account for the period of "Global Warming" that ended the Pleistocene age when there was very little if any human impact on the planet? The problem I have with the modern environment movement is that they equate everything to human beings and the solutions to the problem is in stern and draconian control of the human population----by someone ------- probably them.
 

Zach Smith

Omono
Messages
1,513
Reaction score
2,853
Location
St. Francisville, LA
USDA Zone
8
You can be environmentally responsible (good stewards) without requiring us peons to starve or freeze to death. The problem with environmentalism is it was co-opted by Marxists in order to gain political control over people. This has happened over and over. The Sierra Club, to use one example, is a billion dollar business. I would assert that they do not care one whit about the polar bears or whales or starving children in Africa, only about the income needed to pay executive salaries and maintain political influence and power. Virtually all causes start out nobly and then morph into big businesses. The Susan G Komen foundation is a great example. They started racing for the breast cancer cure decades ago. There's no noticeable change in breast cancer survival (at least that which is not due to manipulating data), yet the race and fund-raising continue in order to fund executive salaries and political power. Who can say no to curing breast cancer?
 

Vance Wood

Lord Mugo
Messages
14,002
Reaction score
16,913
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
5-6
You can be environmentally responsible (good stewards) without requiring us peons to starve or freeze to death. The problem with environmentalism is it was co-opted by Marxists in order to gain political control over people. This has happened over and over. The Sierra Club, to use one example, is a billion dollar business. I would assert that they do not care one whit about the polar bears or whales or starving children in Africa, only about the income needed to pay executive salaries and maintain political influence and power. Virtually all causes start out nobly and then morph into big businesses. The Susan G Komen foundation is a great example. They started racing for the breast cancer cure decades ago. There's no noticeable change in breast cancer survival (at least that which is not due to manipulating data), yet the race and fund-raising continue in order to fund executive salaries and political power. Who can say no to curing breast cancer?
Thou art correct! IMHO
 

americanelmer

Shohin
Messages
252
Reaction score
104
Location
Pinellas County Florida
USDA Zone
9b
"Neither does looking out your living room window and making grandiose statements about the global environment."

My living room window is just as valid a place to see the environment as any other.

I make no grandiose statements -- only observations based on 75+ years on this planet. You and your chicken-little buddies are the ones that make grandiose statements. eg. We are all going to die unless you do as we tell you to.

You probably believed the Y2K hysteria was really going to crash all embedded systems, most of which don't have clocks. How many billions of dollars (there was no euro then) and multiple man hours were wasted on that non problem?

It continues to astound me that people who grow trees as a passion can possibly believe that human beings are going to kill the planet. These are the same people who seem to say two things:
  1. I am doing all that I can.We have too many humans.
  2. It's not enough unless every one else does as I DO. We have to many humans.
A good way to start to answer the too many humans problem is to off yourself and your immediate family. Its not enough but it is a start.

"I know it happens, I worked for a testing company that falsified results because if they didnt, the client would find someone that would."

How long after you discovered the above falsifications did you continue to work for this company?

A_E
 

Zach Smith

Omono
Messages
1,513
Reaction score
2,853
Location
St. Francisville, LA
USDA Zone
8
And while we're at it, I find it tragically amusing how many birds get chopped up by windmills each year. Yes, the bird lovers insisted on subsidized wind power and now their birds are getting chopped up. What, no outcry? Well, those taxpayer-funded subsidies sure are nice and must be maintained, right? You can even go visit the wind farm in your subsidized Tesla electric car and bask in the joy of knowing you pitched in to keep Elon Musk in the billionaire ranks.

You just can't make this $h!t up!
 

M. Frary

Bonsai Godzilla
Messages
14,307
Reaction score
22,120
Location
Mio Michigan
USDA Zone
4
Thank G-d I see me and not you!

A_E
I think you see me in your dreams the way you're stalking me around here.
Can't keep me put of your thoughts.
I've gotten under your skin and have dug in like a melanoma. Eating away at you.
I enjoy it immensely and it tells me a lot about you.
I would personally insult you but I don't need to ,to keep you going.
I've hooked you,landed you,taken you all the way to the dock for pictures.
 

Joe Dupre'

Omono
Messages
1,705
Reaction score
3,725
Location
Belle Rose, La.
USDA Zone
9a
Oh.....windmills. The wind power devotees never factor in the energy expended to mine and process all the materials that go into each windmill. And where are these windmills installed? They are frequently installed quite far away from where the power is consumed, leading to immense shipping costs, not to mention the infrastructure to deliver that power--wires, poles, transformers, etc.
 

americanelmer

Shohin
Messages
252
Reaction score
104
Location
Pinellas County Florida
USDA Zone
9b
I think you see me in your dreams the way you're stalking me around here.
Can't keep me put of your thoughts.
I've gotten under your skin and have dug in like a melanoma. Eating away at you.
I enjoy it immensely and it tells me a lot about you.
I would personally insult you but I don't need to ,to keep you going.
I've hooked you,landed you,taken you all the way to the dock for pictures.


Yah Yah still a socialist twit who thinks so highly of himself.
You still got nothing except your monumental delusions of grandeur.

You're welcome.

A_E
 

GrimLore

Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
Messages
8,502
Reaction score
7,453
Location
South East PA
USDA Zone
6b
You can be environmentally responsible (good stewards) without requiring us peons to starve or freeze to death.

I agree and stated clearly we do what we can as best we can to keep our footprint very small. To worry about it, not so much, no donations etc... Just doing our best ;)

Grimmy
 

Zach Smith

Omono
Messages
1,513
Reaction score
2,853
Location
St. Francisville, LA
USDA Zone
8
I agree and stated clearly we do what we can as best we can to keep our footprint very small. To worry about it, not so much, no donations etc... Just doing our best ;)

Grimmy
Agreed. Use what you need. Recycle what you can if there's a net benefit. Grow more bonsai, they love CO2.
 

americanelmer

Shohin
Messages
252
Reaction score
104
Location
Pinellas County Florida
USDA Zone
9b
"I agree and stated clearly we do what we can as best we can to keep our footprint very small"

Why should our "footprint" be small? In comparison to what?

A_E
 

Zach Smith

Omono
Messages
1,513
Reaction score
2,853
Location
St. Francisville, LA
USDA Zone
8
"I agree and stated clearly we do what we can as best we can to keep our footprint very small"

Why should our "footprint" be small? In comparison to what?

A_E
I take it to mean avoid avarice, not the phony carbon footprint thing. Carbon is awesome.
 

GrimLore

Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
Messages
8,502
Reaction score
7,453
Location
South East PA
USDA Zone
6b
Why should our "footprint" be small? In comparison to what?

Our power Company can tell us what our usage is for example compared to others in our Townhouse Community. By that figure I can safely state we use far less energy then others here by doing simple things;

1) All of our appliances have very good Energy Star usage ratings.
2) Every normal Light in our place is CFL, average life 8 years
3) Every plant light I use is 17W per 1000K + Lumen
4) Both Pc's here I built using Energy Efficient components - side benefit is they run very cool and last longer.
5) Two nightlights here are LED, rated at 1/3 of 1 Watt
6) Since 2013 I have replaced every Light Switch and Power Outlet with high quality while ensuring proper grounding - our lights never flicker and because there is no brown outs everything lasts longer.
7) Every single Lighted Holiday decoration is LED and on Timers that run from Dusk Until 10PM. LED saves energy, shorter run times saves more...
8) Our Oil burning forced hot air heat is properly maintained by contract and is buffed by Sunlight as we are an end unit receiving full East/West sun. We are warm in the Winter using less then 1/2 the resources our Community does average per household.
9) We have not but are replacing our Central Air this Spring. It works just fine BUT we will reduce our power consumption by close to half after completion.
10) Our recycle container is 64 Gallons and is FILLED weekly, our Trash container is 96 Gallons - has never seen more then 10 Gallons weekly.
11) Our Lamp post Is now LED reducing the wattage used from 75W to 9W running Dusk to Dawn as required here.

I am certain I missed some things like Water usage but tired of typing :p

To answer your question we do the BEST we can and have no control or concerns of what we cannot control(others). Not that we don't care, just no sense to worry if you do your part.

Grimmy
 

ianb

Shohin
Messages
470
Reaction score
364
Location
Mission Viejo, CA
USDA Zone
10a
I love these "scientific consensus" signed by government or UN-funded scientists whose livelihoods depend on continued grants from governments or the UN. Wonder what conclusions they're going to draw. Imagine, if you will, our future when enough control has been ceded or seized and it's determined that us producing more humans will harm the planet and something must be done. Only one solution to that. We might call if the "Final Solution," to use a catchy phrase. We can start with one child per family, forced abortions if you mess up, and if that doesn't work then the old folks are only useless eaters anyway. Zyklon B is cheap to produce.

AGW or climate change or climate disruption or the term du jour is a hoax. They've been manipulating what data they didn't purge or ignore for decades. A nice-size volcanic eruption does more pollution than all of Europe for a comparable period: “The sulfur dioxide (SO2) emitted from the Holuhraun eruption has reached up to 60,000 tons per day and averaged close to 20,000 tons since it began,” notes Pall Stefanson, in a September 25 report for Iceland Review Online. “For comparison, all the SO2 pollution in Europe, from industries, energy production, traffic and house heating, etc., amounts to 14,000 tons per day.” (https://www.thenewamerican.com/tech...llution-dwarfs-all-of-europes-human-emissions). So we have to impoverish ourselves because we're the cause of all the problems. (Our masters, of course, will not join us in poverty.)

I say all of this as a former scientist myself (I'm not on government grants, so don't have to fit in with the political "consensus" to keep getting them), so I get why they think they can get away with it because most people today have been mis-educated and end up clueless and easy to sway with emotional appeals (think polar bears on ice floes). Predicting the temperature of the planet - what is the correct temperature, anyway? no one ever says - within a few degrees 100 years from now is total BS. The earth makes a poor laboratory, because you can't control any of the variables. That's why weather forecasts are never very accurate more than about 10 days out. If you can't make a computer model that's completely accurate a year from now, why would you think you could make one that's accurate 100 years from now? I mean, come on. What's truly mind-boggling is that anyone would say you could - especially all the "scientists" who sign those declarations and theoretically should know better. But of course we understand what drives the consensus.

So apart from the Marxist conspiracy theories do you have any comment on the actual data presented on the NASA site?
 

Zach Smith

Omono
Messages
1,513
Reaction score
2,853
Location
St. Francisville, LA
USDA Zone
8
So who isn't? Where do we go to see the "real" data?
You tell me. You seemingly believe the data published on the NASA site. I mean, seriously? Don't forget NASA became a Muslim outreach agency when Obama was president. So much for space exploration and science. I'd bet if you investigated, you'd find that NASA employees vote Democrat (Marxist) to the tune of 95%, just as the rest of the federal bureaucracy does. They are full of "scientists" who were indoctrinated at Marxist-run universities. So you will never get the truth from them. They are merely a tool for continued and increased political control of the populace.

NSA, TSA, CIA, FBI, EPA, HUD, FDA, FEC, FCC, etc. etc. etc. Tell me which of these agencies you trust. Then tell me all the honest angels somehow ended up at NASA.
 
Top Bottom