Ume Design

tstrum · Dec 20, 2017

I got this Japanese Apricot this summer. It is currently in potting soil. I wanted to get some design input. I have a few pics of the front. At the moment the tree is a straight stick from all other angles. I am contemplating a trunk chop after it flowers. I have drawn a low quality virt of what I am thinking. This is my first ume and would also be my first trunk chop so I wanted to get some feedback on what you thought about where to chop or other possible design ideas for the tree.
@Brian Van Fleet

Adair M · Dec 20, 2017

I think it’s too young to chop. Ume look best when they have mature rough bark, which contrasts against their delicate and fragrant flowers. And so the tree is left to grow to build girth and bark, and THEN chopped and regrow the branches. The stump can be carved, and have interesting Uros and deadwood.

I’d put it in a grow box, and let it grow!

fredtruck · Dec 20, 2017

Adair has good advice. I would add that in addition to rough bark, the rougher the branches appear, the better. You should use the tree as a very rough framework for the display of the flowers, something Adair said, but I'm repeating.

Brian Van Fleet · Dec 20, 2017

I would probably let it grow for a while, and then chop it really low and see if you get some more interesting movement as a result. I’ve lived with stick-straight trees, wishing I had chopped them years earlier. Ume don’t grow quite as fast as tridents, so you want to get the trunk at least to 50% of your final diameter before you chop for the first time. Here is a sequence of shots over time growing one:
2010:

2012:

2013:

2014 after a chop:

Dug in 2015:

Cut back during 2017:

sorce · Dec 21, 2017

I just did a Google search for Ume.....

Here's my conclusion.

The flowers are pretty.
Seems like a waste of time to create a large demented trunk. It's easy to look over.

In a display, the trunk is just a pathway from pot to flowers.
Craggy bark up that trunk of yours would be a delightfully quick path to travel. (Even to that high canopy.)

While the contrast of an older beat up trunk is great, it is merely an element that must be removed from elsewhere in the display.
IE, A simpler accent, an understated pot, no scroll...etc.

Which means without that element, you can use a more complicated accent, pot, or scroll, etc.
To the same end in the big picture.

This is not outside of a nice couple segments of transition for me. How bout u?

Keep putting on thin layers now, building proper branching, and you'll get that bark faster too.

So yours will be a bit more fem and a bit less tranny then them Japanese Ume....
Bid deal, you still have contrast, just not grotesque contrast. Extreme contrast. Contrast that,,,,seems like everyone went running for, and never looked back to see how truly ugly (or just unnecessary) it is.

Keep her fem. Fem and fast!

Sorce

M. Frary · Dec 21, 2017

I would go the BVF route.
I like powerful trunks.
I also would put flowering as the last thing to worry about until the tree was built.
I only have one flowering species of tree. I actually don't care if it flowers or not. Flowers are temporary. So why not have a tree that looks good without them as with them?

tstrum · Dec 23, 2017

Thanks guys!

So to grow it out: the trunk is about 1.5" and its in a 1 gallon pot. What's the correct size grow box? Is 14"x14"x5" ok or should I go up gradually? If its on the ground, does it need to be soil directly under it or can it just sit on the grass?

Adair M · Dec 23, 2017

sorce said:
I just did a Google search for Ume.....

Here's my conclusion.

The flowers are pretty.
Seems like a waste of time to create a large demented trunk. It's easy to look over.

In a display, the trunk is just a pathway from pot to flowers.
Craggy bark up that trunk of yours would be a delightfully quick path to travel. (Even to that high canopy.)

While the contrast of an older beat up trunk is great, it is merely an element that must be removed from elsewhere in the display.
IE, A simpler accent, an understated pot, no scroll...etc.

Which means without that element, you can use a more complicated accent, pot, or scroll, etc.
To the same end in the big picture.

This is not outside of a nice couple segments of transition for me. How bout u?
View attachment 171774
Keep putting on thin layers now, building proper branching, and you'll get that bark faster too.

So yours will be a bit more fem and a bit less tranny then them Japanese Ume....
Bid deal, you still have contrast, just not grotesque contrast. Extreme contrast. Contrast that,,,,seems like everyone went running for, and never looked back to see how truly ugly (or just unnecessary) it is.

Keep her fem. Fem and fast!

Sorce

Ume are traditionally shown (and grown to be) stumps with flowers.

You can say what you want, but bonsai is all about the trunk. Yes, the flowers are fabulous. But it’s still all about the trunk.

Tieball · Dec 23, 2017

Brian Van Fleet said:
I would probably let it grow for a while, and then chop it really low and see if you get some more interesting movement as a result. I’ve lived with stick-straight trees, wishing I had chopped them years earlier. Ume don’t grow quite as fast as tridents, so you want to get the trunk at least to 50% of your final diameter before you chop for the first time. Here is a sequence of shots over time growing one:
2010:
View attachment 171748
2012:
View attachment 171747
2013:
View attachment 171745
2014 after a chop:
View attachment 171746
Dug in 2015:
View attachment 171752
Cut back during 2017:
View attachment 171749 View attachment 171750

Cool....that last photo of a tree trunk is fabulous! That’s a nice target image to achieve.

Adair M · Dec 24, 2017

Tieball said:
Cool....that last photo of a tree trunk is fabulous! That’s a nice target image to achieve.

Jim Gremel grew this tree. I bought it from one of the BIB members. Here’s what it looked like when I bought it:

sorce · Dec 24, 2017

I like the tall skinny ones.

I'd be trying to figure out how to break and bend that trunk before choppin it.

Nan dem good ones been chopped.
Look collected.

Them shitty ones....carved.

I think Jim was on a good path with that left trunk.

Ya'll Americanized it!

IMO.

@tstrum look at the pics for yourself.
Don't Americanize yours.

Figure what wrecked them old Japanese ones.
And become that.
Be nature to it.
Not man.

Sorce

bonhe · Dec 24, 2017

sorce said:
View attachment 172056

I like the tall skinny ones.

Don't Americanize yours.

Sorce

Hi Sorce,
I could not agree with you more!
Literati style should be the best for flower display in my opinion.
Bonhe

sorce · Dec 24, 2017

bonhe said:
Hi Sorce,
I could not agree with you more!
Literati style should be the best for flower display in my opinion.
Bonhe

Bless you!

Of course I wandered over to your thread for a gander since it was up...

Can't wait to see those flowers!

Sorce

bonhe · Dec 25, 2017

sorce said:
Bless you!

Of course I wandered over to your thread for a gander since it was up...

Can't wait to see those flowers!

Sorce

Thanks Sorce. I wish you have a great successful year ahead.
I will update my ume post when it is in flower
Bonhe

Leo in N E Illinois · Dec 26, 2017

@tstrum

A 14 x 14 x 5 inches container holds roughly the same amount as a nursery trade 3 gallon pot. Yes, it is a good step up for your ume. You should be able to get it to a 2 to 3 inch diameter trunk in that pot.

Ume Design

tstrum

Mame

Attachments

Adair M

Pinus Envy

fredtruck

Omono

Brian Van Fleet

Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy

sorce

Nonsense Rascal

M. Frary

Bonsai Godzilla

tstrum

Mame

Adair M

Pinus Envy

Tieball

Masterpiece

Adair M

Pinus Envy

sorce

Nonsense Rascal

bonhe

Masterpiece

sorce

Nonsense Rascal

bonhe

Masterpiece

Leo in N E Illinois

The Professor

Similar threads