Marc Torppa @ The Growing Grounds and/or Don Blackmond @ GBB

butlern said:

That's a point, Adair... I actually considered this, but then thought longer about it and decided not to include this detail.

I can see the advantage, as you suggest, but I can also see the downside.

I suppose "quality" is subjective. I was just hoping to have these respected vendors (artists, too, really) offer up what they regarded as quality, then transition to the topic of value.

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Well, you have a point, too. But, if you tell them you have a budget of $700, they’ll be more motivated to work with you than if you have a $40 tree in mind.

There can be “quality” $40 trees, and crappy $40 trees. Same is true at the $700 level, too. But, at $700, they’ll be more willing to spend time with you to figure out what you’re looking for, and try to find something that fits your requirements. And the more you’re willing to spend, obviously, the harder they’ll work.

Also, bonsai is a relatively small niche market. A vendor wants to have good repeat customers. And giving someone a bad experience can come back to bite. (As an example, take some of the comments made about Mike Torpa in this thread). Contrast those comments against those given about Julian Adams on the wire thread.

Don Blackmond has great material.

Adair M said:

Give them an idea of the price range you are willing to spend, and tell them you are looking for the best tree that amount will buy.

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That truly the only way to buy material. Helps them see what they have in your price point.

butlern said:

That's a point, Adair... I actually considered this, but then thought longer about it and decided not to include this detail.

I can see the advantage, as you suggest, but I can also see the downside.

I suppose "quality" is subjective. I was just hoping to have these respected vendors (artists, too, really) offer up what they regarded as quality, then transition to the topic of value.

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If you can’t shoot straight with a bonsai seller about what you want and what you can pay, you will be wasting their time and yours. If you are worried that sharing your price point with a seller will set you up to be taken advantage of, you’re dealing with the wrong vendor. You would be wise to spend time price-shopping so you can set realistic expectations.

OK, I reached back out to Don with more specifics, including a reference to $$$.

butlern said:

OK, I reached back out to Don with more specifics, including a reference to $$$.

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Sorry. You are completely correct that I have been non-responsive. I apologize.
As for bonsai, I've been focusing effort and time on development rather than sales. I apologize for my poor service and responsiveness. Bonsai is a hobby for me, and I do it for fun in addition to my attorney occupation and family obligations.
Life is busy. That's an excuse, but does not justify failure.
As an aside, I have spent the last 4-5 years researching and designing animal shelters, and raising money to build one for the Humane Society of Southwestern Michigan. I have a $2,000,000 shelter under construction, scheduled to be completed the end of last month. There have been a myriad of issues affecting the construction schedule, and I'm in the final push to get everything to come together to get this thing done.
I've raised $1,400,000 so far and just secured a $700,000 matching grant for the balance. The public announcement was yesterday.
There are not enough hours in a day or days in a week to do it all. But I am trying.

Well done, Don! Congrats on nearing the final stages of your excellent project with the Humane Society.

I appreciate the reply, and certainly there is no need to offer an apology. I do understand that the bonsai is but one of many side projects and interests.

Now get back to work on completing that shelter!

Perhaps down the road we can re-connect and see what you might have available.

Noah

Don Blackmond said:

Sorry. You are completely correct that I have been non-responsive. I apologize.
As for bonsai, I've been focusing effort and time on development rather than sales. I apologize for my poor service and responsiveness. Bonsai is a hobby for me, and I do it for fun in addition to my attorney occupation and family obligations.
Life is busy. That's an excuse, but does not justify failure.
As an aside, I have spent the last 4-5 years researching and designing animal shelters, and raising money to build one for the Humane Society of Southwestern Michigan. I have a $2,000,000 shelter under construction, scheduled to be completed the end of last month. There have been a myriad of issues affecting the construction schedule, and I'm in the final push to get everything to come together to get this thing done.
I've raised $1,400,000 so far and just secured a $700,000 matching grant for the balance. The public announcement was yesterday.
There are not enough hours in a day or days in a week to do it all. But I am trying.View attachment 180618

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Wow that is so great to see! Congratulations on the matching grant, and thank you from my heart for all your hard work to help our voiceless friends.

Just to add a couple more cents to this discussion. My experience with newcomers looking for nice collected material has been hit or miss, so I'm generally wary. My time is very limited, so when I run out and take photos from various angles and email them to supposedly eager buyers and never hear back, it's not a huge incentive to go to all that trouble over and over again. Not complaining, mind you, it's just part of the wonderful world of bonsai selling. Most everyone who's into bonsai is really nice, but some are casually inconsiderate.

@Don Blackmond Kudos to you...for your accomplishment of that building...and being their voice! That...is fantastic!

I hear you, Zach... and this was my central concern... being regarded as a newcomer who could potentially waste a vendor's/artist's time and effort.

In the end it has all worked out (i.e. I committed to one of Don's trees today, and I am currently communicating with Brent about shipping three trees from his current inventory).

When I am ready for a BC to be added to my ever expanding collection, I will be reaching out to you, too, Zach!

thanks for all the productive discussion here, everyone.

Noah

Thank you.

Has anyone had more recent, in person experience with the growing grounds here in NC? I see shipping is horrendous, but its only a few hour drive from me.


My birthday is this month and im dying to get my hands on a big tree for a change- most everything i have is small-medium sized bonsai. I dont have a specific species in mind, maybe an ume or trident. JBP would be nice, but probably out of budget.


He recently updated his website to say he only does tours during spring, but define spring

JoeR said:

Has anyone had more recent, in person experience with the growing grounds here in NC? I see shipping is horrendous, but its only a few hour drive from me.


My birthday is this month and im dying to get my hands on a big tree for a change- most everything i have is small-medium sized bonsai. I dont have a specific species in mind, maybe an ume or trident. JBP would be nice, but probably out of budget.


He recently updated his website to say he only does tours during spring, but define spring

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I haven't been there in 3 years and won't be back. Great trunks but lot's of bad chop wounds with underlying rot and crappy roots that require heroic effort to fix. Of the three trees I have from GG, only one is left and it's in the ground again for the foreseeable future.

Dav4 said:

I haven't been there in 3 years and won't be back. Great trunks but lot's of bad chop wounds with underlying rot and crappy roots that require heroic effort to fix. Of the three trees I have from GG, only one is left and it's in the ground again for the foreseeable future.

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Thanks for sharing. Pictures either here or PM would be great.

Were they at least fairly priced for the considerable flaws? Hate to hear that, seems like he operates the GG as more of a side business. I really don't want another 7+ year project just trying to get ground grown roots in shape like that.

The problem is, I want a big tree- but there really aren't many options close by, and shipping something that large is a costly nuisance. So im open to suggestions for other places, if you have any.

JoeR said:

Thanks for sharing. Pictures either here or PM would be great.

Were they at least fairly priced for the considerable flaws? Hate to hear that, seems like he operates the GG as more of a side business. I really don't want another 7+ year project just trying to get ground grown roots in shape like that.

The problem is, I want a big tree- but there really aren't many options close by, and shipping something that large is a costly nuisance. So im open to suggestions for other places, if you have any.

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Dasu Bonsai if over $100 shipping is free. My huge rock Thuja planting was free shipping.

JoeR said:

The problem is, I want a big tree- but there really aren't many options close by, and shipping something that large is a costly nuisance. So im open to suggestions for other places, if you have any.

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If I could share a personal point of view as both a vendor and purchaser. Road trip, take your time and travel to those vendors with a good reputation, make an appointment and pick out exactly what you want within your budget from what they have available! Share your expectations and budget with the vendor, if you do not trust the vendor, pick a different vendor. The vendor should be able to point out the relative strengths and weaknesses of potential purchases, clearly indicating fair value! The health of a tree is best judged in person. Photographs are a poor substitute and often deceiving.
As a vendor I want my trees to be in the hands of someone who can appreciate the work that has gone into development and as a purchaser I dislike surprises that create years of delay or major disappointment in the eventual outcome.
Shipping, even when done with great care is still risky!
Road trip! You would be amazed at the number of miles many Bonsai enthusiasts have covered to their eventual destinations.
I know it is not always possible, but If it is at all possible, go for it! Besides you meet the nicest people on road trips and share the most amazing Bonsai experiences.

JoeR said:

Thanks for sharing. Pictures either here or PM would be great.

Were they at least fairly priced for the considerable flaws? Hate to hear that, seems like he operates the GG as more of a side business. I really don't want another 7+ year project just trying to get ground grown roots in shape like that.

The problem is, I want a big tree- but there really aren't many options close by, and shipping something that large is a costly nuisance. So im open to suggestions for other places, if you have any.

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If you are in North Carolina, he’s an easy drive for you. I agree with Frank, go there if you are interested. Be picky.

Here’s the deal, as I understand it. The guy who owns the place inherited it and the trees in the ground from his father. The father was the “bonsai guy” and started the operation. And for a while, it had some amazing trees. The son, well, not so much. He appears to have neglected the operation, and the quality isn’t what it used to be.

If you go there, you might find that pearl in the oyster. Maybe not. Full disclosure, I have not been there. I have friends who have. I’d talk to Dav4 to find out more of what to expect. He’s been there, bought a few trees, and he’s documented them here on BonsaiNut.

Dav4 said:

I haven't been there in 3 years and won't be back. Great trunks but lot's of bad chop wounds with underlying rot and crappy roots that require heroic effort to fix. Of the three trees I have from GG, only one is left and it's in the ground again for the foreseeable future.

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This is a thread on the lone survivor... it might be something to work on again in a few years... https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/opinions-on-re-doing-a-trident-maple-chop-in-late-august.24547/

And this is a picture of a trident stump acquired there. It had a trunk that initially look great with nice taper and movement... until you realized all the chops were rotting into the stump because they'd never been sealed or had any work done to help them heal... and look at that awesome nebari with great thick roots seperated by inch + wide gaps basically moving straight down.. . I suspect a healthy trident would have done fine with the radical root reduction shown in the picture, but therot in the trunk had clearly affected the tree's vigor and it never recovered.