Acer Palmatum from Seed

RobertB · Dec 20, 2017

Yes, I remember seeing that thread. I also remember someone stating something like one method of doing this is be able to raise the window screen every now and then allowing for the plants to keep curving.

Do you have a link to that thread?

Are these the most recent pictures of these maples? Would love to see what you have done to them.

Mellow Mullet · Dec 20, 2017

rnlabarnes said:
Yes, I remember seeing that thread. I also remember someone stating something like one method of doing this is be able to raise the window screen every now and then allowing for the plants to keep curving.

Do you have a link to that thread?

Are these the most recent pictures of these maples? Would love to see what you have done to them.

Check out this blog/ site, it belongs to @Smoke here on b-nut. He has a lot of info on maples, particularly tridents. He used the screen method on a bunch of trident seedlings, it think it is on there. If not, search his posts, he has a ton of great info.

John

RobertB · Dec 20, 2017

thank you. I have read a ton of his posts. great info from someone who sounds like they have been doing this for a bit..!

Velodog2 · Dec 20, 2017

rnlabarnes said:
Yes, I remember seeing that thread. I also remember someone stating something like one method of doing this is be able to raise the window screen every now and then allowing for the plants to keep curving.

Do you have a link to that thread?

Are these the most recent pictures of these maples? Would love to see what you have done to them.

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/new-auction-maples.29630/

Those are the offering pics. Got them at the end of last summer and have done nothing with them. They will be a long term project. Both have fat buds on the trunk and I want to see what happens with them as they will both be cut back to a new leader eventually. Also as they are from seed the roots are a mess with a long leader and no real nebari in sight. So layering is also in their future.

RobertB · Feb 28, 2018

well after a little over 2 months in the fridge, about 1/4" of them have sprouted. I went ahead and planted them up this past weekend and placed the rest in pure sphagnum till the end of my 90 days. Will probably check again this weekend for sprouters. One thing I noticed is that is was mostly the very small seeds that germinated. Also, the floaters i placed in a separate bag almost completely had germinated, near 100% after 2 months. Crazy.

RobertB · Mar 9, 2018

Planted out about another 100 that had sprouted last weekend then went ahead and planted the others that had no germinated in a separate container last weekend too. Fingers crossed.

Nybonsai12 · Mar 9, 2018

0soyoung said:
A child of acer shirasawanum aurem, golden full moon as it was last year

Does not reproduce true to the variety, so it is just a generic a. shirasawanum.

Oso,
Lemme pick your brain. i obtained some A. Shirasawanum seeds. Will they ever reproduce true to the variety or is it guaranteed they never will? I guess it's kind of like whats the point if I can't get those beautiful leaves that differ so much from regular palmatums.

I also have some standard J. Maple seeds i pulled off two of my bonsai last year that were very small seeds. I've seen vendors sell small acer palmatum large seed and acer palmatum small seed? what's the difference other than seed size? will they produce trees with different charateristics?

0soyoung · Mar 9, 2018

Nybonsai12 said:
i obtained some A. Shirasawanum seeds. Will they ever reproduce true to the variety or is it guaranteed they never will? I guess it's kind of like whats the point if I can't get those beautiful leaves that differ so much from regular palmatums.

I also have some standard J. Maple seeds i pulled off two of my bonsai last year that were very small seeds. I've seen vendors sell small acer palmatum large seed and acer palmatum small seed? what's the difference other than seed size? will they produce trees with different charateristics?

No, they are very unlikely to reproduce true to the mother tree. A. shirasawanum are generally known to be more vigorous growers than a. palmatum, to bark up earlier in life, and to bear flowers/samara above the leaves (a. palmatatum below). All a. shrasawanum will have these same traits from seed. Many of the prized cultivars, though, did result from seed (accidents), so there is always a (small) possibility that you find something unique in a batch of seed.

Regarding seed size, I am only aware of general acer species seed size differences and it is just with a few species at that. A. palmatum and shiraswanum seeds are usually small.

@AlainK is your best bet for a good answer - he's a maple growing maniac!

AlainK · Mar 9, 2018

Acer shirasawanum: if it's the plain species, they will look like the true species, unless having hybridized with a cultivar standing nearby, or mutating, in either case, not bad, on the contrary you might end up with an interesting new subspecies.

Acer palmatum: There are three subspecies of Acer palmatum:
- A. palmatum palmatum : very small seeds (1 cm - 1 inch is 2.54 cm) See: https://www.henriettes-herb.com/galleries/botany/acer/jdl-acer-091.html
- A. palmatum amoenum : large seeds (3-5 cm - 2 inches is 5.08 cm) See: https://www.henriettes-herb.com/galleries/botany/acer/jdl-acer-088.html
- A. palmatum matsumurae : large seeds (3-5 cm) See: https://www.henriettes-herb.com/galleries/botany/acer/jdl-acer-089.html

For the Acer maniacs

, the links are from : https://www.henriettes-herb.com/galleries/botany/acer-alph.html, and mentioned on : http://forums.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/threads/maple-resources-discussion-thread.87425/page-2

Gary McCarthy · Mar 9, 2018

AlainK said:
For the Acer maniacs , the links are from : https://www.henriettes-herb.com/galleries/botany/acer-alph.html, and mentioned on : http://forums.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/threads/maple-resources-discussion-thread.87425/page-2

THANKS VERY MUCH for those links @AlainK!

AlainK · Mar 9, 2018

Gary McCarthy said:
THANKS VERY MUCH for those links

You're welcome.

There's a north-American branch of the Maple Society - cheap subscription, 4 "letters" (35 pages booklet) a year, seed exchange schemes, meetings, a forum for Acermaniacs, etc. :

https://maplesociety.org/en-gb

And a forum (not as active as this one, but very friendly too, and accurate):

http://forums.botanicalgarden.ubc.ca/forums/maples.9/

Michaelb · Mar 9, 2018

Bavarian Raven said:
Best time to prune j. Maples is late winter / early spring imho. When the buds start to enlarge but before they truly start to grow. At least that's what I've found from experience IMHO. Cheers.

Why prune then? There is so much sapflow building that they will start bleeding..
Prune early wunter when the leaves have dropped of in spring after buds have opened

Nybonsai12 · Mar 9, 2018

0soyoung said:
Regarding seed size, I am only aware of general acer species seed size differences and it is just with a few species at that. A. palmatum and shiraswanum seeds are usually small.
:

Large is the shirasawanum from Sheffield’s, small is the palmatum from my own tree.. tiny!

0soyoung · Mar 9, 2018

Nybonsai12 said:
Large is the shirasawanum from Sheffield’s, small is the palmatum from my own tree.. tiny!

Thanks for teaching me about shirasawanum seeds!

Obviously, I haven't paid enough attention to this stuff

I've never bought seeds.
I now recognize that I've had blinders on. Thanks!

AlainK · Mar 9, 2018

Michaelb said:
Why prune then? There is so much sapflow building that they will start bleeding..

If you prune the branches and the roots, in late winter - early spring, they won't bleed so much.

Nybonsai12 · Mar 9, 2018

0soyoung said:
Thanks for teaching me about shirasawanum seeds! Obviously, I haven't paid enough attention to this stuff I've never bought seeds.
I now recognize that I've had blinders on. Thanks!

I recall ordering Mikawa yatsubusa Acer palmatum seeds a few years back and they were similar in size to the shirasawanum. I seem to think my Acer palmatum seeds are abnormally small. But they’re fresh which in my opinion is the biggest component for successful germination.

0soyoung · Mar 9, 2018

Michaelb said:
they will start bleeding.

And why do we care?

Some sugar gets dumped into the xylem by living cells in the wood. Osmosis then produces a stem pressure. So ...

RobertB · Mar 18, 2018

Here are some pics of my seedlings and the others that are just starting to sprout. It has been a challenge to keep them watered correctly. I recently moved them to a different covered area where they would get a little less sun.

Some variation in seedlings.

Some more..

The others that are just starting to show.

Dorky_gearhead · Mar 18, 2018

Clearly something about my process is wrong. Between last year and this year I've collected and stratified several hundred japanese maple seeds, and I didnt even get 1 to germinate.

I've cut several open to make sure they are viable (or at least aren't hollow). I soaked them for 24 hours, then placed into a damp paper towel, then into zip lock bags, and finally into the fridge. I've periodically checked on them, and no roots sprouting. After 2 months of being in the fridge I sewed them and kept the soil moist, but not wet. Still nothing after another month+.

Maybe I should have got seeds from more than 2 trees.

Leo in N E Illinois · Mar 19, 2018

JM seed can require both a warm stratification and a cold stratification.

If the seed is allowed to dry out as it matures in autumn, below 75% moisture, then more than half the seed will require a warm stratification before a cold stratification. The dryer the seed gets, the greater the probability it will need a warm stratification. Seed that needs a warm stratification will germinate the following spring. Do not dump the seed flats that didn't sprout until the second summer.

If seed is harvested while still green and moist, will sprout without a warm stratification. So moist seed will sprout the first spring.

Most of the time, JM seed will be a mix, some portion sprouting the first spring, the rest the second spring.

Perhaps this is part of your problem? @Dorky_gearhead

Acer Palmatum from Seed

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