Mikawa Yatsubusa advice

jd_bonsai · Mar 12, 2018

I have owned this tree for a couple of years. It was given to me by my boss when I worked at a nursery.
I am just looking for some advice on what to do with it. I really don’t want to chop off a bunch of branches just to hopefully create an average Bonsai, but I am open to any air layering ideas.. Also, I’m not opposed to just keeping it as a landscape specimen tree.
Any advice welcome, thanks.

(Ps. That’s a small bic lighter)

Vin · Mar 12, 2018

Well, if you're going to use it as bonsai you will need to address the graft. To me, the only fix is to layer it just above the graft. It has some graceful bones to it so I think it would be worth considering. Also, this area should only have two branches and this one is too far developed and will need to go.

Clicio · Mar 12, 2018

Vin said:
Well, if you're going to use it as bonsai you will need to address the graft. To me, the only fix is to layer it just above the graft.

@Vin , mine is a question I've been wanting to ask for a long time; maple cultivars are grafted to use the strong roots of the stock, usually "regular" japanese maple, isn't it?
(Please correct me if I am wrong!)
So air layering the tree above the graft will in the end overlap the original intention of the graft, right? Then why was it grafted in the first place?

Vin · Mar 12, 2018

Clicio said:
@Vin , mine is a question I've been wanting to ask for a long time; maple cultivars are grafted to use the strong roots of the stock, usually "regular" japanese maple, isn't it?
(Please correct me if I am wrong!)
So air layering the tree above the graft will in the end overlap the original intention of the graft, right? Then why was it grafted in the first place?

Japanese Maples are from some alien planet. The only way to keep a cultivar consistently "clean" is to graft it onto root stock. When growing from seed they may not have the same appealing characteristics of the tree the seed came from. So, once you have a desirable JM you use it as a donor by grafting branches onto root stock. Well, at least that's how I understand it. Weird stuff, I know.

River's Edge · Mar 12, 2018

Vin said:
Japanese Maples are from some alien planet. The only way to keep a cultivar consistently "clean" is to graft it onto root stock. When growing from seed they may not have the same appealing characteristics of the tree the seed came from. So, once you have a desirable JM you use it as a donor by grafting branches onto root stock. Well, at least that's how I understand it. Weird stuff, I know.

One of the common reasons they are grafted on different rootstock has to do with the hardiness factor of various maple varieties. Using strong rootstock that is suitable for a wider range of temperature allows for greater variety in landscaping or bonsai choices. And then you have the advantage of a variety of colours and foliage size, shape for display. Thus more opportunities for refinement options. Nurseries need to produce stock that will live in a broader range of temperatures in order to sell outside of their local area.
Removing the grafted rootstock means that you will have to provide appropriate winter care for the variety left on the top portion.

Adair M · Mar 12, 2018

Riversedgebonsai said:
One of the common reasons they are grafted on different rootstock has to do with the hardiness factor of various maple varieties. Using strong rootstock that is suitable for a wider range of temperature allows for greater variety in landscaping or bonsai choices. And then you have the advantage of a variety of colours and foliage size, shape for display. Thus more opportunities for refinement options. Nurseries need to produce stock that will live in a broader range of temperatures in order to sell outside of their local area.
Removing the grafted rootstock means that you will have to provide appropriate winter care for the variety left on the top portion.

That, and they use the faster growing varieties as stock. Often, the scions are the dwarf, slower growing versions. The hope is the faster growing stock will push the scion to grow faster than if it were on its own roots. In the nursery trade, it’s the overall size of the mass of foliage that sells. Non-bonsai people don’t look at the graft. They just how big the foliage canopy is.

So... for this tree, I’d use it to take airlayers under the first crotch of the major branches. The long straight sections are useless for bonsai.

Les · Mar 12, 2018

jd_bonsai said:
I have owned this tree for a couple of years. It was given to me by my boss when I worked at a nursery.
I am just looking for some advice on what to do with it. I really don’t want to chop off a bunch of branches just to hopefully create an average Bonsai, but I am open to any air layering ideas.. Also, I’m not opposed to just keeping it as a landscape specimen tree.
Any advice welcome, thanks.

(Ps. That’s a small bic lighter)

I purchased a Mikawa a few years ago and here is some information I found and saved about this cultivar.
Mikawa will retain large leaves all the time - even after total defoliation the leaves regrow the same size. the tree makes very short annual extension and is very top dominant. It makes very dense growth with multiple layers of leaves within millimeters of each other, so needs heavy thinning in the upper and outer sections or the tree looses all inner ramification. This thinning is the opposite of other acers - you must remove the 'under leaves' and keep the outer ones otherwise the tree does not grow any more that year. They bud back really well and respond to hard pruning but are very slow growers so take a long time to make into a good bonsai - but they are an unusual bonsai so well worth the effort.

As the leaves stay large the final tree needs to be large for it to look right - 24"+ finished height can just about balance the leaves - not a shohin tree !
As it grows slowly you dont want to cut anything off yet or you are setting the project back years.
The twigs that support the leaves are thicker than normal too - more reason for a large tree and not a little one.

I would grow the tree as fast as possible to a much larger size - either in the ground or in large pots - feed hard and minimal pruning. Remember the tree buds back everywhere so build the height and trunk first and concentrate on branches in a few years. If you are into small bonsai put this one in the garden or on a patio and enjoy it that way as it will not be pleasing as a small tree because of the big leaves in summer and thick stubby twigs in winter. Bud break is the one week you keep these trees for lime green shoots bursting from blood red buds with red flowers too.....it is a great display.

KiwiPlantGuy · Mar 13, 2018

jd_bonsai said:
I have owned this tree for a couple of years. It was given to me by my boss when I worked at a nursery.
I am just looking for some advice on what to do with it. I really don’t want to chop off a bunch of branches just to hopefully create an average Bonsai, but I am open to any air layering ideas.. Also, I’m not opposed to just keeping it as a landscape specimen tree.
Any advice welcome, thanks.

(Ps. That’s a small bic lighter)

Hi jd_bonsai,
I don’t want to be a party pooper but sorry here goes - after a google search after my few attempts to root this cultivar failed, it told me that this cultivar is next to impossible to root from cuttings and my guess is air-layers will be the same.
I do hope to be proven wrong as I too would like to try and grow this as a bonsai.
Hope to follow this thread to see how you go

Charles

Les · Mar 13, 2018

KiwiPlantGuy said:
Hi jd_bonsai,
I don’t want to be a party pooper but sorry here goes - after a google search after my few attempts to root this cultivar failed, it told me that this cultivar is next to impossible to root from cuttings and my guess is air-layers will be the same.
I do hope to be proven wrong as I too would like to try and grow this as a bonsai.
Hope to follow this thread to see how you go
Charles

You can air-layer Mikawa’s but your probably right about cuttings. I have not had any success with cutting.???

jd_bonsai · Jul 22, 2018

So here in SC we’ve been in the low to mid 90s for a couple months now, and all of a sudden this Mikawa starts browning at the tips, and eventually the leaf (leaves) is brown and curled and falls off...
It’s not the whole tree that’s doing this. A guesstimate would be around 30% to 40% of the foliage browning and falling off, also seems to be occurring more at the tips of all the branches (not so much on the inner foliage).

Initially this is why the tree was given to me at work. The whole tree essentially decided to defoliate itself. I was then told to “take that home with you” so I gladly did knowing that it would re-foliate with some closer care/watering, etc...

Currently it’s in a #15 squat pot (which it has been in since I brought it home in summer 2016), and I suspect its roots need some room to breathe. Should I slip pot into a #25 squat pot?

jd_bonsai · Jul 22, 2018

Also, does anybody have any particular fertilizer suggestions? *Im currently just using Milorganite spread on the surface and then add a little bit of topsoil on top*

Japonicus · Jul 24, 2018

Les said:
It makes very dense growth with multiple layers of leaves within millimeters of each other, so needs heavy thinning in the upper and outer sections or the tree looses all inner ramification. This thinning is the opposite of other acers - you must remove the 'under leaves' and keep the outer ones otherwise the tree does not grow any more that year.

I have lots to learn on building maples for bonsai.
I recently received a Yatsubusa on its own roots and growing in ground.

This thinning they need for breathing as well, to avoid disease, but do tell, do we thin whilst growing out in ground, or large pots?
Is there a good descriptive source to learn the technique properly. I only have one.

Hack Yeah! · Dec 17, 2020

jd_bonsai said:
Also, does anybody have any particular fertilizer suggestions? *Im currently just using Milorganite spread on the surface and then add a little bit of topsoil on top*

How is your tree doing?

jd_bonsai · Dec 21, 2020

It’s doing fairly well, I’ve simply kept it in its pot for this year , as a patio tree. I haven’t made any structure changes. I did notice some leaf scorch this summer, which from my understanding, is not abnormal in SCs heat on a full sun patio. Going to find a shadier spot for it next summer.

Bonsai Obsessed · Jan 13, 2021

If you ever air layer some of those upper branched off I would love to work out a trade with you! I have some beautiful dwarf Japanese maple air layers I pulled last summer. Just throwing it out there! Good luck with it!

Hack Yeah! · Jan 14, 2021

Bonsai Obsessed said:
If you ever air layer some of those upper branched off I would love to work out a trade with you! I have some beautiful dwarf Japanese maple air layers I pulled last summer. Just throwing it out there! Good luck with it!

@Pitoon ? You had some right?

Pitoon · Jan 14, 2021

Hack Yeah! said:
@Pitoon ? You had some right?

Yes, I still have several currently root training right now.

Pitoon · Jan 14, 2021

KiwiPlantGuy said:
Hi jd_bonsai,
I don’t want to be a party pooper but sorry here goes - after a google search after my few attempts to root this cultivar failed, it told me that this cultivar is next to impossible to root from cuttings and my guess is air-layers will be the same.
I do hope to be proven wrong as I too would like to try and grow this as a bonsai.
Hope to follow this thread to see how you go
Charles

Mikawa Yatsabusa will not readily root by cuttings. For this cultivar air layers and grafting is the way to go. Shishigashira is also similar, will not root by cutting, but will root by air layer.

Pitoon · Jan 14, 2021

jd_bonsai said:
Also, does anybody have any particular fertilizer suggestions? *Im currently just using Milorganite spread on the surface and then add a little bit of topsoil on top*

I fertilize all my maples with Osmocote 14-14-14, one dosage will last the growing season.

Matt Kasugi · May 18, 2021

Les said:
I purchased a Mikawa a few years ago and here is some information I found and saved about this cultivar.
Mikawa will retain large leaves all the time - even after total defoliation the leaves regrow the same size. the tree makes very short annual extension and is very top dominant. It makes very dense growth with multiple layers of leaves within millimeters of each other, so needs heavy thinning in the upper and outer sections or the tree looses all inner ramification. This thinning is the opposite of other acers - you must remove the 'under leaves' and keep the outer ones otherwise the tree does not grow any more that year. They bud back really well and respond to hard pruning but are very slow growers so take a long time to make into a good bonsai - but they are an unusual bonsai so well worth the effort.

As the leaves stay large the final tree needs to be large for it to look right - 24"+ finished height can just about balance the leaves - not a shohin tree !
As it grows slowly you dont want to cut anything off yet or you are setting the project back years.
The twigs that support the leaves are thicker than normal too - more reason for a large tree and not a little one.

I would grow the tree as fast as possible to a much larger size - either in the ground or in large pots - feed hard and minimal pruning. Remember the tree buds back everywhere so build the height and trunk first and concentrate on branches in a few years. If you are into small bonsai put this one in the garden or on a patio and enjoy it that way as it will not be pleasing as a small tree because of the big leaves in summer and thick stubby twigs in winter. Bud break is the one week you keep these trees for lime green shoots bursting from blood red buds with red flowers too.....it is a great display.

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