Seedlings planted through tiles

small trees · Apr 18, 2018

Hey guys, quick question. I have a few trees that I have planted through wooden planks in lieu of tiles a couple years ago. As expected, the wood didn't hold up very well and we'll see how the results turn out. I'll attach a couple pics in my next post of what they looked like this spring. For my next batch I looked around and found sheet metal that I can cut to size. I just want to make sure that there is no reason not to use sheet metal to girdle the trunks as they grow. Thanks

small trees · Apr 18, 2018

The first picture from a couple months ago shows the wood decaying. The other pictures show that I have had some results, but definitely don't use wood if you decide to try this out.

Ericc · Apr 18, 2018

I would use Ceramic tiles, they are easy to remove by breaking. Metal will become a problem as the trunk grows over the hole and you have to cute deep into the trunk.

small trees · Apr 18, 2018

Ericc said:
I would use Ceramic tiles, they are easy to remove by breaking. Metal will become a problem as the trunk grows over the hole and you have to cute deep into the trunk.

1)Wouldn't you just slice under the metal? This is very thin, maybe 1/16" metal.

2) I always thought drilling through ceramic was almost a guarantee to break it. What do you use to drill with?

Ericc · Apr 18, 2018

I use a hollow diamond coated drill, available in all sizes but rather expensive. Use water when drilling and don’t push it, let the drill do it’s work. If you cut all roots that grew through the hole metal will probably also work.

Ericc · Apr 18, 2018

I used cheapest white kitchen wall tiles.

BonsaiMatt · Apr 18, 2018

GeorgiaBonsai said:
1)Wouldn't you just slice under the metal? This is very thin, maybe 1/16" metal.

2) I always thought drilling through ceramic was almost a guarantee to break it. What do you use to drill with?

Masonry bit, and lots of water to keep it cool and remove dust. You also need to support the tile from below with something flat, a piece of plywood works for this.

WNC Bonsai · Apr 18, 2018

I used some old CD disks. Just drill holes through the plastic for multiple plants or if you expect exceptional growth rates just run one stem through the center hole. Most folks have tons of these left over from old computer program installs etc. They won’t decay and you can cut them off with heavy shears.

SnowfallenGarden · Apr 18, 2018

May I ask what this technique is? Why turniqit the trunk at the root base? Wouldn't this create an unsightly gouge type scar? The nebari may turn out nice and the basal flare may turn out better and if you chop the trunk to the gouge and grow another leader that would give a head start on nebari.

But I don't see the advantage of growing like this.

I've heard of putting tile Underneath the root base to stop from growing tap roots and increase the nebari. Just not this.

small trees · Apr 18, 2018

1) Drill hole through tile/metal/wood in my case
2) Thread seedling through before leaf break
3) Plant in ground and allow to grow until the trunk grows enough in size that it is girdled by the tile. It will swell at that point and throw out roots on a flat plane, hopefully radially, on the top of the tile.
4) Chop everything below the tile

If you look in my second post at the third photo, you can see at the bottom of the photo, where I am pointing, where the original roots were. The roots on top of the wood grew as the tree girdled itself. You can also see the difference in size between the girdled trunk and the trunk below the wood.

small trees · Apr 18, 2018

You are left with a flat and hopefully radial root system with which to work with. You could go from a root system like this(not the same tree and larger than what I started with with the others)

to something like this (this is the second tree in the second post of this thread). Roots aren't perfectly radial and I could have left it threaded through the board for another year, but the wood was not holding up very well and the roots are more or less on a flat plane.

SnowfallenGarden · Apr 18, 2018

Oh, I didn't see those pics. That makes 100% sense, I just picked up tome scrap tile. What size hole should I drill for seedlings? I think 1/2" ? 1/4"?

This is a pretty cool technique, I'm glad I found this. I'm gonna try it with my next batch of seedlings.

small trees · Apr 18, 2018

It's up to you. The seedling just needs to fit through. Whatever size hole you drill will be what the trunk diameter will have to be before it starts girdling itself. There is a thread with much better instructions for this. I'll see if I can find it and edit it into this post.

Edit: I can't find the thread that made me try this but here is a good explanation that uses the technique to make a large base with multiple seedlings: http://bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATdevelopingclumpformbonsai.htm

SnowfallenGarden · Apr 19, 2018

That's pretty legit!

It will be easy to get the board or tile over seedlings, I have a couple other trees that I need to develop nebari on. One has an award root base and some branches, I don't know if I can get the tree through the drilled hole in the board or tile.

I guess I can use a wire turniquet. I've been thinking but ground layering for about a month now. I may try it next season. I got the tree from up north and it was dormant. Its been down here in Georgia for about a month and a half now. Its definitely still alive, but hasn't popped yet. Still waiting for that.

When I start these new seedlings and they grow enough, I will probably try this in the next year or 2 to ensure good nebari growth.

Glad I found this topic!! Thanks!

dirk hoorelbeke · Apr 19, 2018

Cofga said:
I used some old CD disks. Just drill holes through the plastic for multiple plants or if you expect exceptional growth rates just run one stem through the center hole. Most folks have tons of these left over from old computer program installs etc. They won’t decay and you can cut them off with heavy shears.

Tried the CD trick long ago. The tree broke the disk. Must try heavy metal.

small trees · Mar 11, 2019

Here is a second year example of the results I've had with the tree-through-plank technique.

Nanuk · Mar 11, 2019

I like the technique, although I will admit that I was confused on the why.
Now I understand.
That's what I like about this place, I learn something almost every time that I sign on.

Lou T · Mar 12, 2019

Will this work for conifers, specifically cypress?

Shibui · Mar 12, 2019

Lou T said:
Will this work for conifers, specifically cypress?

That will depend how easily the conifer can produce new roots. I've used it (with sheet metal plates rather than ceramic tile) with Japanese Black pines. Started with 5 and ended up with 2 survivors but with great nebari. The other 3 did not put out enough new roots before they were strangled by the plates.
Should be fine with Juniper chinensis which roots quite easily so should be able to get plenty of new roots established in time.
Many pines should work but maybe not 100% survival rates because they are generally slower to root.
I have not tried it with cypress but most are grown commercially from cuttings and root relatively well so they should respond to this. Why not give it a go and let us all know the results?

peh3 · Mar 13, 2019

dirk hoorelbeke said:
Tried the CD trick long ago. The tree broke the disk. Must try heavy metal.

Using 2 or 3 CDs that I glued together did the trick for me.

Seedlings planted through tiles

Chumono

Chumono

Sapling

Chumono

Sapling

Sapling

Shohin

Omono

Mame

Chumono

Chumono

Mame

Chumono

Mame

Omono

Chumono

Attachments

Shohin

Mame

Imperial Masterpiece

Yamadori

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