Juniper procumbens 'nana'

I'm sure a lot of you are sick to death of seeing yet more Juniper procumbens 'nana' but I am newly returned to trying my hand at bonsai after more than 25 years and I figured this one was cheap and easy practice to learn on. So the first photo is when I first purchased it at the end of March. Then I started pruning and did some starter basic wiring to get a sense of the general shaping I want. But this is as far as I have gotten so far. I'd love input and I think I need to thin out the upper branches more. Maybe move towards some finer wiring though maybe I'll wait on that until I can access my copper wire that's in storage for our relocation to NC this month. I will also repot it this summer (or autumn if suggested) but I have to wait on that as well because I don't have my kilns wired up to make pots until we finish moving in May. I should probably put it into a pond basket or suchlike anyway for a while first? I need to order some of those.

If you look at the very last photo from above, I am thinking I want to thin the two upper left branches more and bend them more around towards the top so they'll be a little closer in with more curves. Then the branch on the far right I will perhaps bring a little more bend around towards the bottom of the photo and tie it in with a guide wire. What do you all think?

A lesson I heard about cascades (Colin Lewis I believe) is to remember why they are cascading to begin with. There must be a great reason to grow down at all; i.e. an utterly hostile environment up top.

Once he mentioned that, I came to notice all the best ones I've seen have involved the trunk doing a belly crawl to the edge of the pot and then expressing foliage downward right away. As opposed to this vague idea that the tree will grow up, give you a nice little tuft of healthy foliage and then decide to grow down for some mysterious reason.

I was just grappling with this idea myself with a particular tree. I couldn't pull off why it would be going up and then down....so I ditched that idea and rearranged the design to be more sensical.

Doing internet searches on cascades and semi-cascades I do see a /lot/ of them with something around the top. Some don't, many do. I can go either way. I could strip the upper branches and jin them as dead wood and eventually also do some shari along a portion of the trunk base, but I thought it may be wiser to let it grow in a little while before I make that decision? I'm not keen to have the base completely stripped with no branches - that would be boring and look wimpy, IMO.

Certainly I am looking for some advice so I won't discount various options. I have another I am working on as a cascade that is a Pacific Blue juniper and it definitely has an upper branch that mimics the cascading branch. But I know I'm going to jin that one later almost for certain. I wouldn't want the two of them to look too much alike. It is a steep cascade and this one I'm happy to have more semi so I could tip it a little one way or the other when it's repotted. I may even shorten the lower cascade.

This is a good example. Clearly the elements were kicking its ass up top, and gave a compelling reason to grow another way. I find that very pleasing and cohesive.

If foliage is on top and filling space and creating a composition...fine. It's all a matter of taste. But the logic behind what I heard definitely resonated as mostly true.

Yes, I like that one - but then it has plenty going on up top before it became dead wood, to lend the interest. So I don't want to remove those branches entirely, though I am open to the possibility of jinning them to become dead wood. Not sure if I wouldn't be wiser to do it later after it's had more time to grow though. Also I see where people sometimes /add/ pieces of dead wood and get their living tree to fuse and grow around it. I have nothing suitable on hand to try that at this time but if that's an acceptable practice, I could think about it.

I do at least live up in the mountains so I see a lot of natural cascade and semi-cascade trees in the wild. All shapes and sizes, all kinds. Plenty of them are cascades and still have living material around the top, some don't. Just like the bonsai I see when I do an internet search but with more variation in nature. So I am on the lookout for something to really knock my socks off as an inspirational tree to model mine off of but this one is far too young to have much character, yet.

Or, conversely I could strip it down hard and go more Literati. My only concern in doing that is that the trunk I have isn't interesting enough to carry the design. Not without dead wood, imbedded wire scarring, /something/ so it doesn't look weak and boring.

Hyn Patty said:

I will also repot it this summer (or autumn if suggested) but I have to wait on that as well because I don't have my kilns wired up to make pots until we finish moving in May. I should probably put it into a pond basket or suchlike anyway for a while first? I need to order some of those.

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It looks to me you have done enough work on it already and moving afterwards I would honestly leave it as is until at least Spring of next year.

As for the eventual repot I would use a large Nursery pot cut shorter but much wider. I would cut all of the foliage off of the clump in the 4th picture on the right side and let it dry up. At repot I would then tip it in the direction of that clump 70 degrees or more letting the rest grow out keeping it a cascade with the option of some interesting jin. Just my 2 pennies but you asked

Grimmy

Yep, I appreciate the input very much! Easy to do, to leave it for now. I'm going to be too busy (packing more today) for the next month to do much anyway. So I have time to think about it. Maybe work on some photoshop alternate versions of what I could do with it, later. I'd need to thin those upper branches to see what's in there anyway eventually but we'll see.

A. Gorilla said:

This is a good example. Clearly the elements were kicking its ass up top, and gave a compelling reason to grow another way. I find that very pleasing and cohesive.

If foliage is on top and filling space and creating a composition...fine. It's all a matter of taste. But the logic behind what I heard definitely resonated as mostly true.

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That's a nice cascade but there is many ways to make nice ones. Yes, they are hard but that's the fun of it. I like this one. Congrats to whomever made it.

A small update. I went ahead and thinned down the upper foliage like I had originally planned so I could get a better idea of the branching. I think it looks a lot better though I might still reduce the branch to the right a bit more. For now I'm not stripping those branches and will see if I want to jin them at some later time. Still need a little of the foliage off the undersides too. For now, get our move done and then I can start thinking about pots!

I would have tried to crank the cascading branch up to make an informal upright.
I actually love procumbens nana juniper.
They look good in juvenile foliage and their scale foliage is as good as shimpaku.

I have seen some outstanding examples online that were NOT cascade that got my attention. I may get a few more of these and try that as well but I won't torture this one any more for a while. I am reasonably happy with it for now and it will likely be planted above a rock wall in the garden over a tile to start root training and left there to mature the trunk for a while with regular shaping. I have a garden to work with around the house so I don't feel like I'm in a hurry to get all of these into bonsai pots right away. Easier probably for the first year to put them into the ground while we get ourselves sorted out anyway. I'll be setting up a seed growing area for trees as well out in the vegetable garden but I'll probably need to net it against critters. At least that's the plan I am kicking around while we finish moving this next month. Give me time to get my kilns wired up and running and practice making pots between now and next spring.

Small update a year later on the Juniperus procumbens nana. It grew like a MONSTER last summer with all that heavy rainfall. Still in it's original pot and I still may put it into the ground though I'm leaning towards training it over a rock. So ground or deep pot for that transition. Meanwhile, everywhere I wired it last year that bit in, really thickened up branches so I have wired the trunk more snugly and will continue to apply thick wire where I have circled in red. I love the scarring effect it also gives to make it look gnarly and I think it'll fade over time to blur over and look interesting later.

So far I'm practicing wiring the pads so input is very welcome whether I am doing that right or not. I am considering tipping both of the upper branches closest to the base more upwards and turning them into dead wood but I want to shape and set them first with a little more growth. Everything is spread out a bit flat so far and I may twist them this way and that for a more wind tortured look up top - but I would like input before I do that.

Another option is that I could work on bending the lower section upwards instead of down for a more informal upright though I want to be careful not to break that section off. I can also play with Photoshop for tipping the whole thing over to make it more upright. I do have a Pacific Blue Juniper that is also a cascade but I am less happy with it as a cascade and may be more inclined to tip and bend that one around. It also seems less brittle and can put up with me bending the crap out of the branches. I'll update that thread as well once I get a chance to thin out the thick needles. It too really thrived in all that rain last summer.



Yes, I know copper wire would be much better but I am on a tight budget right now and would rather order good bonsai soil mix than invest in a lot more wire right now. I'm definitely not taking these to any shows any time soon.

Nice start growing like a monster! Let that lower "apex" leader grow crazy a few years
keeping in check keeper branches occasionally. With good feed that wire will be off by May very latest.
Late April would be on time.

Looking at pic #1 it's obvious what will be the lower apex.
Looking at pic #2...what are your plans here on the right?
Is that what you meant considering for deadwood?
Could be a nice upper apex with a good tilt of the planting angle,
but the lower twigs need to be allowed to grow wild for that when you look at the 3rd pic.
Good movement in it!

...or allow the right side branch to become the cascade and do like Mike suggested.
That would put the larger trunk as the upper apex.

Thank you. If you look at the third shot looking down from above you can see a branch curving out from underneath the tree on the left side closest to the base of the trunk. I know that's a no-no but I like how it looks. It gives a nice layering to that side. /That/ one may get jinned as it could make some nice dead wood but I think I want it to stay a while and grow a bit gnarlier first. Then the one on the right that is currently flattened out, I may lift up more as an 'upper' apex and jin it as deadwood as well. But I haven't decided - I kind of like how it balances right now and I don't want to be in a rush to cut and kill limbs. Once I do it, I can't undo it. I still like the input though to think about. Maybe play with some Photoshop options.

The lower growing point will continue but I don't really want it to get much longer. So I'm likely to let it grow to help thicken things up, but not really get a lot more length. I'm not wanting a long, drawn out cascade on this, more a semi. Of course trees like this tend to evolve over time so I may change my mind. Once it's mounted on stone it'll give the piece a little more height above the soil line that'll be a nice visual but it'll take a good while to get that far since I'll have to do that buried and uncover it over an extended period of time.

It's been a very, very long time since I practiced wiring and pruning for pads on a juniper so I really don't know if I'm doing that right. I have been looking at the tutorial on this site.

As I live in the mountains, and have for a number of years off and on, I have seen a /lot/ of trees that reach and lean way out and down that didn't necessarily have a bunch of dead wood either. They may lean and reach simply because there isn't enough light and are crowded above, from rocks or other trees, or because wind comes up over a ridge and keeps the growth low and angled out the other way where it's less bitter. So I'll also think about more of a 'wind swept' look as another possible option.