General comments

RobertB · Mar 20, 2018

Riversedgebonsai said:
The timing for the cutting based on development is fine. The substrate surrounding the cutting appears too coarse on the surface. The cuttings are usually placed in smaller particle media for the first stages. However i cannot see what is underneath or which part of your mix may retain moisture. From the picture it appears to be straight grit.

This one was not a cutting. It was my largest seedling which I decided to try and pot up, only trimming the tap root. The media is basically grit. Its 25% grit, 25% coarse DE, 25% screened pearlite, 25% screened pine bark. The media is the best I can do right now for this project. At least at this point of the project.

River's Edge · Mar 20, 2018

RobertB said:
This one was not a cutting. It was my largest seedling which I decided to try and pot up, only trimming the tap root. The media is basically grit. Its 25% grit, 25% coarse DE, 25% screened pearlite, 25% screened pine bark. The media is the best I can do right now for this project. At least at this point of the project.

That mix should be fine, i could not make out the DE or Pine Park. With some side roots left and just the tap cut that is a better case scenario. An economical addition for the centre portion could be sterilized children's play sand. Just use a small pvc pipe about 1 1/2 inch diameter 3 inches long. Set it in the centre of the pot, pour your regular mix around the outside. Then fill the inside of the pipe with sand and gently lift the pipe out. This will give you a finer base for the new roots and they will rapidly grow out into the regular mix. For inserting the cutting just use a piece of appropriate size wire to make a hole in the dampened sand, insert the cutting and water the sand gently. It will close around and hold the cutting in place.

RobertB · Mar 20, 2018

Riversedgebonsai said:
That mix should be fine, i could not make out the DE or Pine Park. With some side roots left and just the tap cut that is a better case scenario. An economical addition for the centre portion could be sterilized children's play sand. Just use a small pvc pipe about 1 1/2 inch diameter 3 inches long. Set it in the centre of the pot, pour your regular mix around the outside. Then fill the inside of the pipe with sand and gently lift the pipe out. This will give you a finer base for the new roots and they will rapidly grow out into the regular mix. For inserting the cutting just use a piece of appropriate size wire to make a hole in the dampened sand, insert the cutting and water the sand gently. It will close around and hold the cutting in place.

This is basically what I did for my first batch of actual cuttings. They have been going for two and a half weeks now and are looking good. Hoping they stay strong and live. Cutting batch two this weekend or next. This time I will do more, around 50 or so. I have about 300 seedlings that are very close to being there.

Anthony · Mar 21, 2018

Noticed something interesting.
One of the seed trays had a broken section on an end.
Seedling was falling out, so it was removed from the chamber.
For a month and two week old seedling, that was one long tap root.

I see why one might cut it.

A test was done to 2 seedlings, the one mentioned and another.
Early entry into a just about 4 inch tall, simple clay pot.
Just to see what happens.

Normally we wait about three months before shifting to clay pots.
Soil is 5 mm silica based gravel and compost [ 8 parts inorganic to 2 parts organic ]
Good Day
Anthony

hemmy · Mar 22, 2018

http://bonsainurseryman.typepad.com/bonsainurseryman/2006/04/pines_where_it_.html

Found this while looking for another answer. Interesting observation that field ground grown JBP 1yo seedlings (sown in ground) are smaller (than container), with small tap roots, and balanced branching. But that 2yo ground grown plants have weak side branching and lower survival after root prunes.

I wonder if in the ground the first year is spent developing a more extensive root base at the expense of top growth?

milehigh_7 · Mar 28, 2018

I read in 3 different journal articles last night that JBP germinates best with exposure to light and that surface sowing is recommended. If there is anyone else that is late starting, you might try that variable so we can see what happens.

TN_Jim · Mar 28, 2018

milehigh_7 said:
I read in 3 different journal articles last night that JBP germinates best with exposure to light and that surface sowing is recommended. If there is anyone else that is late starting, you might try that variable so we can see what happens.

Good stuff. I just ordered some seeds and am down to experiment with this approach.

Clicio · Mar 28, 2018

Anthony said:
Normally we wait about three months before shifting to clay pots.

After cutting the tap root, @Anthony ?

Anthony · Mar 29, 2018

Clicio,

this batch of seedlings are not as aggressive as what we used to get.

We did have one fall out of an old seed tray. The plastic broke.
This seedling had the first needles developed.
Boy, that was a long tap root.
So we cut it.
Just to see what happens.

Still alive today, and in full sun. But all we did was to shorten the root
back to 2.5 cm from the stem, and it also had a few small side roots
as well.

Normally we do not interfere with the roots.

After 10 years or so the surface roots develop naturally.

Will be repotting quite a few trees next yeas, will report on results.

Interesting the seed might need light to germinate.
Thank you -Clyde - @milehigh_7
For the extra information - thank you - @hemmy
Good Day
Anthony

amiller · Mar 29, 2018

Can anyone participate in this contest? I am a newbie. I live in Colorado, zone 6b. I have never attempted to grow a tree from seed. I started reading posts on this site a few months ago. My experience with bonsai is very limited. I bought two Jaboticaba from Brussels bonsai, One trident maple and one raintree from Amazon last fall. The tropical have grown like crazy, indoors under a T5 light. The trident is outside, I cover it when temperatures drop below freezing. I know very little about JBP. I did buy some seeds, ordered a heating mat so I can start them inside. Last freeze is usually around May 15th. I don't expect to compete with the experienced people on this site, but i would like to follow along and learn how to properly care for, style my future pine trees.

jeanluc83 · Mar 30, 2018

amiller said:
Can anyone participate in this contest?

Sorry but only people who are crazy enough to think a 6 year contest is a good idea are allowed to join.

Go for it. The contest is about learning.

milehigh_7 · Mar 30, 2018

amiller said:
Can anyone participate in this contest? I am a newbie. I live in Colorado, zone 6b. I have never attempted to grow a tree from seed. I started reading posts on this site a few months ago. My experience with bonsai is very limited. I bought two Jaboticaba from Brussels bonsai, One trident maple and one raintree from Amazon last fall. The tropical have grown like crazy, indoors under a T5 light. The trident is outside, I cover it when temperatures drop below freezing. I know very little about JBP. I did buy some seeds, ordered a heating mat so I can start them inside. Last freeze is usually around May 15th. I don't expect to compete with the experienced people on this site, but i would like to follow along and learn how to properly care for, style my future pine trees.

You won't be a newbie in six years! Jump in the water is fine!

amiller · Mar 30, 2018

milehigh_7 said:
You won't be a newbie in six years! Jump in the water is fine!
Thank You, I believe I will!

defra · Apr 14, 2018

DirkvanDreven said:
It looks to me that you made the cuttings a little to soon. I think its better to wait untill the first real needles are a bigger. New roots wil grow very quickly. BT 20 article mentions roots coming out of the drainage holes of the pots within about six weeks!

So this is still to early to do the seedling cuttings?

RobertB · Apr 14, 2018

defra said:
View attachment 186736
So this is still to early to do the seedling cuttings? View attachment 186736

Yes. A few more weeks in full sun and warm temps

RobertB · Apr 24, 2018

Can anyone help me with how long I should wait to start fertilizing my seedling cuttings? Thinking about using the cottonseed meal for my fertilizer when I start and using the tea bags. Interested in qty to put in the tea bags and how many and then frequency of application. My seedling cuttings have been rooted now for a few weeks and seem to just starting to be growing again.

defra · Apr 24, 2018

RobertB said:
Can anyone help me with how long I should wait to start fertilizing my seedling cuttings? Thinking about using the cottonseed meal for my fertilizer when I start and using the tea bags. Interested in qty to put in the tea bags and how many and then frequency of application. My seedling cuttings have been rooted now for a few weeks and seem to just starting to be growing again.

what type of soil you have your seedlings planted?

RobertB · Apr 24, 2018

see here. https://bonsainut.com/threads/rnlabarnes-6yr-jbp-contest-thread-entry.30323/#post-550066

River's Edge · Apr 24, 2018

RobertB said:
Can anyone help me with how long I should wait to start fertilizing my seedling cuttings? Thinking about using the cottonseed meal for my fertilizer when I start and using the tea bags. Interested in qty to put in the tea bags and how many and then frequency of application. My seedling cuttings have been rooted now for a few weeks and seem to just starting to be growing again.[/QUOTE
My routine is to use liquid fertilizer for the first three months, apply weekly. After three months i apply the organic fertilizer. Small amounts at first. One product that i can reccomend for liquid fertilizer is the Alaskan brand fish fertilizer (only liquid i use). I am sure there are lots of other ones that work.
1 tablespoon to 1 Litre (shake or stir well) Dampen a bit first, then apply liquid fertilizer, this allows for better absorption and retention. It is wasted if applied excessively.
Lots of sun and frequent watering, allow to partially dry between watering. Not dry out but partially dry so there is good drainage and aeration.
For the tea bags i use two heaping tablespoons per tea bag. That is way more than required for i seedling cutting in a 3 or 4 inch pot. I usually break up the organic and sprinkle 1 teaspoon on the surface and use a chopstick to scratch it lightly under the surface with smaller containers. In my case, tea bags are reserved for larger containers and more advanced stages.( grow boxes, colandars, Andersen flats)
I have also used slow release granular products with success. I choose products with lower numbers and measure carefully the amount to use. For example i use 14-14-14 at a rate of 5 grams per gallon size of container, sprinkle lightly not in one location and not beside the stem or trunk. This works out to about 1/2 teaspoon. The granular slow release is usually good for the season, four or five months.
So to sum up, i prefer a variety, use smaller amounts and build up over the season. This is a routine strictly for young plants, young trees where i am after aggressive growth patterns in the early stages. Not reccomended for beginning refinement. Also more suited to a mild climate , which avoids growth complications going into winter from aggressive fertilizer routines. Hope some of this information is helpful.

RobertB · Apr 24, 2018

Frank, thank you for the response. This is very helpful.

One question, when do you start applying the liquid organic fertilizer after planting the cuttings (how long do you wait after the cutting process)? Mine are rooting in about 4 weeks after being cut and planted out.

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