EUROPEAN HORNBEAM

Tidal Bonsai

Omono
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For the first time since the beginning of the year I had a first look into the structure of this tree after spending several hours defoliating it. The tree now is ready for a more careful look as the selection process and refinement begins. As I turned it several times around, some angles were interesting to me.

















I like number 5 the best and number 1, second. I am sure you will make the best descision!
 

Brian Van Fleet

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Have you picked a favorite front, Sergio? From some angles, the two trunks look a little slingshotty to me. If it were mine, I’d probably try and pick a front that minimized that appearance while simultaneously trying to maximize the basal flare. Eliminating one of the trunks is probably a no go at this point. Slingshot trunks don’t bother everyone though and there are certainly examples in nature. What are you thinking and what are your considerations for selecting a front on this tree?

S
Agreed, this is nice material, but I would avoid this front:
453D9FA0-6F0D-46DE-9433-D07B46DF3C82.jpeg
And lean more toward this one:
0B92B11E-D163-4643-A27E-A51D9D87A948.jpeg
In your hands, this will be an exciting piece on day, Serg!
 

markyscott

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Agreed, this is nice material, but I would avoid this front:
View attachment 221819
And lean more toward this one:
View attachment 221820
In your hands, this will be an exciting piece on day, Serg!

I’d kind of lean that way myself. The drawback to this front is that it places the trunk with the best movement and taper in the back. I wonder what to looks like the other way around?

S
 

Brian Van Fleet

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I’d kind of lean that way myself. The drawback to this front is that it places the trunk with the best movement and taper in the back. I wonder what to looks like the other way around?

S
Yes. Serg, no photo of the 180 of this side. Is it an option?
7B85053C-39CE-4A27-A615-609784F13591.jpeg
 

MACH5

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Have you picked a favorite front, Sergio? From some angles, the two trunks look a little slingshotty to me. If it were mine, I’d probably try and pick a front that minimized that appearance while simultaneously trying to maximize the basal flare. Eliminating one of the trunks is probably a no go at this point. Slingshot trunks don’t bother everyone though and there are certainly examples in nature. What are you thinking and what are your considerations for selecting a front on this tree?

S


Thanks Scott! No, have not decided yet but leaning towards the first pic. I'd like to retain both trunks if at all possible. This angle does not offer quite the widest base (although it is still quite nice) but willing to compromise for the greater good. I like the flaring out of all the trunks. Perhaps because it is a tree I have seen before in nature? We'll see where we land but certainly remain very open to other options.
 

namnhi

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This is just me... But having two large trunks but picking the front that hide one bother me. I feel like in that case why not just remove one and rebuild from the remaining one.
 

0soyoung

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Here is a quick virt using the first photo from my post #98.

I like it, but I like this other view better - nebari, depth element, no eye poker branches. It shares the same 'sling shot' primary branches, but all one must do is make them not appear to be mirror images of one another, like you've done in this virt. Look at Marija's or Anreja's carpinus (is carpini the plural?) - you're joining Walter's 'story book' brigade! :cool:
 
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markyscott

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I see where you’re going with it. If it were mine, I’d probably consider not presenting the two trunks broadside, especially considering the major pruning scar from cutting back the trunk on the right. From an angle, even if it was a slight one, you could reduce the symmetry of the two trunk lines. But i also think this is a cool tree from many angles. Looking forward to watching its development

S
 

MACH5

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I like it, but I like this other view better - nebari, depth element, no eye poker branches. It shares the same 'sling shot' primary branches, but all one must do is make them not appear to be mirror images of one another, like you've done in this virt. Look at Marija's or Anreja's carpinus (is carpini the plural?) - you're joining Walter's 'story book' brigade! :cool:


Oso, there are two problems with the view you are referring to. The first is that the two main trunks become slingshotty like @markyscott was talking about. The secod is that they are almost both parallel to the viewer which decreases depth and design dynamics.

LOL perhaps but not sure if this is truly a "fairytale" tree? I think the ones he often refers to as such, have a more fantastical appearance. I'd love to work on one of those but still waiting for someone to collect them here in the US. :rolleyes:
 

MACH5

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I see where you’re going with it. If it were mine, I’d probably consider not presenting the two trunks broadside, especially considering the major pruning scar from cutting back the trunk on the right. From an angle, even if it was a slight one, you could reduce the symmetry of the two trunk lines. But i also think this is a cool tree from many angles. Looking forward to watching its development

S

I like this view Scott as I keep studying this tree. There are good front to back dynamics between the two large trunks from this view which I think the photo minimizes. It feels good to me.

Yes, I agree. I think I can can/should enhance the asymmetry in the "final" design by shortening the left trunk. I recognize my virt feels a little two "even" for a tree like this.
 

August44

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Good learn for me MACH5...thanks for the post. I had no idea one could remove that much of the root system and still have a live and thriving tree. I have collected mainly pines and have learned you can't do that with a pine or it will be DOA immediately. Where I live there is a maple called Rocky Mt Maple (Acer glabrum ) that is up pretty high at about 5000-7500 feet. I'd love to collect one this spring about half the size of yours. Will they stand that type of pruning both on top and with the roots when collected or would I need to do the roots first and the major pruning the next year? Advice/help appreciated. Peter
 

MACH5

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Good learn for me MACH5...thanks for the post. I had no idea one could remove that much of the root system and still have a live and thriving tree. I have collected mainly pines and have learned you can't do that with a pine or it will be DOA immediately. Where I live there is a maple called Rocky Mt Maple (Acer glabrum ) that is up pretty high at about 5000-7500 feet. I'd love to collect one this spring about half the size of yours. Will they stand that type of pruning both on top and with the roots when collected or would I need to do the roots first and the major pruning the next year? Advice/help appreciated. Peter


Hi Peter. From the information I had gathered from some folks who avidly collect hornbeams, I knew I could go fairly aggressive with this tree. Although this hornbeam is old, it is not a true yamadori since it was field grown. True wild collected material, specially from higher altitudes, I think is quite a different story even like in your case with A. Glabrum which just might be surviving and not necessarily thriving in its current conditions. If it were my tree I would be very careful collecting it and I would definitely NOT go very aggressive with its roots. I would proceed more gradually until you see the tree acclimatized well into its new environment. I have a very old collected gray oak that when I repotted it last spring I barely cut anything off and rather took some of the roots and folded then under the rootball to fit it into its new wooden container. Very old collected trees need to be treated with much more care. I think this applies to conifers and well as deciduous species.

It looks like A. Glabrum could be an interesting subject for bonsai.
 
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Timbo

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I dug out my 4in + trunk American Hornbeam near a swampy area....cut the roots back pretty good, they grew fast next year. I made a mistake by not cutting back far enough and had to do it again, It grew pretty good roots in a year before i put it in the ground to grow branches and a new leader. They seem pretty good root growing trees to me. Tree really took off this year and never missed a beat through all of it.

I've had local Maples act similar, however i wouldn't root prune a maple 2 out of 3 years. Mine needed over a year to recover and is still slow to grow out. Whatever you choose, cut it back ONCE and take care of it. I have more trouble with chops dying back on native maples more than anything. I have no exp with Acer glabrum however, diff Maples act differently than mine. Red maple and Sugar maples here mainly.
 

Walter Pall

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This could be an image of a Fairy Tale Bonsai. it does not even try to be beautiful, it does not even know what that is. But it certainly knows what it means to be genuine and impressive and what the soul of a tree is.
Naturalistic Bonsai want to be beautiful and are, they are also natural, but tamed, soul they do have and a bit genuine they are also. But never contrived and licked.
Mach5's tree will be a very good Naturalistic Bonsai. For A Fairy Tael Bonsai it has no talent.

This is one of the oldest European oaks (the English call them English oaks, the Germans call it German oak)

49827655_2249544745281992_4361306536220295168_n.jpg
 

Paulpash

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E Hornbeam are very good backbudders and their soft growth can easily be wired. Any big eye pokers are best handled this way by cutting back and redirecting using younger growth. They have very hard wood so little will shift them once they get pinkie thick.

It looks an epic bit of material. I think you'd also love to work with Prunus Cerasifera (Cherry Plum), a chunky counterfoil to your Persimmon, which exhibit similar gnarly branching as this.
 
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