Japanese White Pine "Arakawa"????

River's Edge

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Hi all,

Anyone heard of this type of JWP? before? I saw it on an ad and it says it's got the corkbark on a JWP.

Thanks

J
Yes, the bark is a type of corkbark, more pebbly in appearance , rather than deeply furrowed, looks great! Initially will be likely grafted, if it is grafted low on the rootstock and done well it will be difficult to distinguish that it is grafted at all when it matures. I have seen mature specimens correctly done that were outstanding. The supplier and their grafting skills are very important in this type of purchase. Often the trees are grown out on the rootstock and then airlayered/ground layered to get the JWP Arakawa on its own roots. The advantage is that the cultivar grows faster on the rootstock than it would on its own roots.
 
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junmilo

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Yes, the bark is a type of corkbark, more pebbly in appearance , rather than deeply furrowed, looks great! Initially will be likely grafted, if it is grafted low on the rootstock and done well it will be difficult to distinguish that it is grafted at all when it matures. I have seen mature specimens correctly done that were outstanding. The supplier and their grafting skills are very important in this type of purchase. Often the trees are grown out on the rootstock and then airlayered/ground layered to get the JWP Arakawa on its own roots. The advantage is that the cultivar grows faster on the rootstock than it would on its own roots.

Unfortunately the graft was very high above soil line when I got three of them 5 years ago...the nursery does not sell them anymore... But they have been producing cones for the past 2 years.. So hopefully I get some true seeds from the cone...
 

Adair M

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Unfortunately the graft was very high above soil line when I got three of them 5 years ago...the nursery does not sell them anymore... But they have been producing cones for the past 2 years.. So hopefully I get some true seeds from the cone...
Dollars to donuts those seeds will produce “normal” JWP.
 

River's Edge

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Unfortunately the graft was very high above soil line when I got three of them 5 years ago...the nursery does not sell them anymore... But they have been producing cones for the past 2 years.. So hopefully I get some true seeds from the cone...
True cultivars are produced from tissue culture, layers or grafts,not seeds. seeds contain too much genetic variation compared to tissue.
 

0soyoung

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Fertilization by some other tree can be prevented by bagging the branch tips where cones will emerge (however many of them you wish to do) to prevent whatever sperm is wafting in the air from fertilizing the emergent cones. Then one could collect pollen from that same tree and use their trusty cotton swab to administer the pollen to the protected cones = genomic control 101.

... leaves me wondering when female cones are 'fertilizable'.
 

River's Edge

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Unfortunately the graft was very high above soil line when I got three of them 5 years ago...the nursery does not sell them anymore... But they have been producing cones for the past 2 years.. So hopefully I get some true seeds from the cone...
I thought i would include some pictures showing a low graft down on the root stock. I cannot take credit for this graft, it was completed by Brent at evergreen. Note in the close up, how the beginning of rough bark appearance is present right to the root line on the side of the scion. Over time as the scion grows and the remaining stub is reduced and healed over the transition will be complete. The stub at this point represents the JBP understock and still requires further reduction. This is an example of progress four years after the initial scion graft. JWP ARAKAWA cultivar on JBP roots.
 

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Adair M

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Fertilization by some other tree can be prevented by bagging the branch tips where cones will emerge (however many of them you wish to do) to prevent whatever sperm is wafting in the air from fertilizing the emergent cones. Then one could collect pollen from that same tree and use their trusty cotton swab to administer the pollen to the protected cones = genomic control 101.

... leaves me wondering when female cones are 'fertilizable'.
Even then, it probably wouldn’t have the same characteristics.

Because if that’s all it took, all the JWP cultivars would now be grown from seed rather than by grafts. Every viable seed, even from the same parents will have differences. Children might favor their parents, but they won’t be exact copies.
 

0soyoung

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True.
Lots of recessive gene effects could come to the forefront instead. And, traits we like could become recessive. Stunting, for example is a well-known consequence of self-fertilization.

Thanks. I've found my reading for today - may interest other readers of this thread.
 

River's Edge

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True.
Lots of recessive gene effects could come to the forefront instead. And, traits we like could become recessive. Stunting, for example is a well-known consequence of self-fertilization.

Thanks. I've found my reading for today - may interest other readers of this thread.
Found it interesting that a small percentage of self fertilization takes place naturally and varies within the pine species. I would expect that reversion to form and mutants would vary even more so in specific cultivars or "sports". However, would not want to be responsible for designing the study to isolate the variables.;)
 

mrcasey

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The above pictures are all 'Arakawa'. Pictures 1,2, & 3 are of the same 3 year old graft. The top pic is the back of
the graft with the remaining dead jbp root stock stump extending up a few inches. The second pic is the tree in its
entirety. The third picture is of the graft union. The fourth picture was a newer 'Arakawa' graft from late last February. The last pic is the donor plant that I purchased from Kigi nursery. Both of the grafts are on Japanese Black Pine stock. I don't know what the donor plant is grafted onto, but I wouldn't doubt if it's eastern white pine.
 

mrcasey

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Osoyoung,

That's interesting. I never really gave much thought to what grafters used for pine root stock out west. All I know is that bonsai folks have always talked
about grafting p. parviflora onto p. thunbergii and so that's what I've used with my grafting. I have wondered, though, if I'd be better off grafting onto some other species. P. sylvestris seems like a really good candidate.
 

Adair M

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Osoyoung,

That's interesting. I never really gave much thought to what grafters used for pine root stock out west. All I know is that bonsai folks have always talked
about grafting p. parviflora onto p. thunbergii and so that's what I've used with my grafting. I have wondered, though, if I'd be better off grafting onto some other species. P. sylvestris seems like a really good candidate.
JWP was grafted onto JBP by the Japanese because that’s what was available.
 

mrcasey

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Bill,

That's kind of exciting to hear, actually. Kigi nursery never advertises 'Ibo Kan' P. parviflora
as far as I know and the label sent with the tree definitely said 'Arakawa'. I'm not
trying to kiss your butt, but I know a little bit about who you are and I give great weight to your opinion
on this matter.
 
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