Ground Growing prep

Messages
1,654
Reaction score
2,535
Location
Belgium
When big roots have managed to escape the extra year will ruin a lot. I would dig one or 2, look what you have, re-arrange the roots and assess if you need to step in. You might put a few in a grow box to have more fibrous roots and check the difference in 2 years. If you want to maintain the roots you have switching back and forth between ground and pot is a good option. Also consider taper and movement at this stage.
 
Last edited:

Bonsai Nut

Nuttier than your average Nut
Messages
12,420
Reaction score
27,854
Location
Charlotte area, North Carolina
USDA Zone
8a
Usually you would want to arrange the roots as best as possible while the tree is just a seedling or sapling. Then you would focus on growing the tree until it reaches the caliper you desire, even if the roots aren't perfect. Once the tree gets to the right trunk caliper, and you reduce your sacrifice growth, then you start dealing with nebari flaws. But it is hard to know where you stand without digging up some trees. If the roots are really bad when the tree is young, and you just plant it in the ground, the flaws may just get worse with time. So some trees might fit into the category of "let it grow" and some might be "fix the roots".
 

Dav4

Drop Branch Murphy
Messages
13,017
Reaction score
29,697
Location
SE MI- Bonsai'd for 12 years both MA and N GA
USDA Zone
6a
I've found out the hard way that tridents left in the ground for 3 years can still have severe imbalances with several roots growing excessively large at the expense of the nebari's development. Still, if these are destined to be large trunked, you might be able to get away with working the roots every 3 years, but if you're wanting a smaller trunk, I'd work the roots every 2 years. It will slow trunk growth but the nebari will be better for it. Those trees look pretty happy, by the way.
 

Shibui

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,545
Reaction score
15,211
Location
Yackandandah, Australia
USDA Zone
9?
I have had similar experiences with TM in grow beds. My grow season is probably a bit different to London but I dig all my maples every winter and prune roots HARD. Nebari is important on maples.
Also prune the tops right back at the same time.
Pruning each year may slow growth just a bit but improved nebari will save you many years of root correction work at a later stage.
A single thick stem may give you a fat trunk but when cut back it is just a fat stump. The scar can take years to heal over and replacement leader takes a few years to grow to match the stump. Regular pruning gives lots of stems The total mass adds up to good trunk thickening but each cut will be smaller and you have lots of choices that will give both taper and movement in the final trunk.
It probably makes more sense when you've done it a few times and can see the results.
 

Drew

Shohin
Messages
371
Reaction score
774
Location
London
USDA Zone
9
To give you a better idea, this is typical of what they looked like when there went in. The JM were air-layers with better roots IMG_7297.jpgIMG_7315.JPGIMG_7278.JPGIMG_7292.jpgIMG_7293.jpg
 

Drew

Shohin
Messages
371
Reaction score
774
Location
London
USDA Zone
9
I think I might just lift them and adjust the roots to be safe. I'll leave the tops and screw them too a bigger board if necessary to secure them back in the ground.
 
Messages
1,654
Reaction score
2,535
Location
Belgium
The first pictures is what i would grow in a big grow box for a JM, there is low movement, great initial taper and low branching. The others will need rootwork this year i suppose. Airlayer branches and for some trees do a groundlayer. For fat tapering trunks you will need to have low branches / chop to work with.
 

Drew

Shohin
Messages
371
Reaction score
774
Location
London
USDA Zone
9
So I dug one up and this was the state of its roots:
IMG_1907.jpgIMG_1908.jpgIMG_1909.jpgIMG_1910.jpg
 

Drew

Shohin
Messages
371
Reaction score
774
Location
London
USDA Zone
9
I stuck another board under it and back in the ground:
IMG_1911.jpgIMG_1912.jpgIMG_1914.jpg

Should I have cut back some of the top extensions as well you think?
 

Shibui

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,545
Reaction score
15,211
Location
Yackandandah, Australia
USDA Zone
9?
What sized pot do you imagine this tree will go into eventually? Those are some long, thick roots. Either you are aiming at quite a big pot or many of those roots will need to be shortened to fit into a bonsai pot. Experience has shown me it is best to cut roots short in the early stages rather than leaving it until I have a fully developed tree.
 

Drew

Shohin
Messages
371
Reaction score
774
Location
London
USDA Zone
9
I wanted to cut them back harder but the buds has already opened on this one so didn't want to take too much off it.... I have 3 more TM like this to possibly do in the next week or so, I am thinking another way might be to air-layer these thicker roots back closer to the trunk instead of just cutting them off? would doing it this way help sustain the top growth without having to cut anything back?
 

Shibui

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
7,545
Reaction score
15,211
Location
Yackandandah, Australia
USDA Zone
9?
Because I do this root work early I have not had to use alternatives. When I have had long roots I usually just go for broke and cut roots really hard. Nearly all survive. Trees are far more hardy than we give credit for.
Root layers should work but make them well back on the roots. Like the top, roots only ever grow longer so allow plenty of space for new roots to fit into the pot.
Other conservative growers reduce roots progressively. Shorten 1/2 or 1/3 of them each year until the entire root system is completed. Again, allow for root regrowth when deciding how short to cut.
 

Drew

Shohin
Messages
371
Reaction score
774
Location
London
USDA Zone
9
For any of you that are interested.. I dug a few more up when I had some spare time over the weekend. The below trident maples I had planted didn't have decent root structures when I first planted them so I wasn't too hopeful.

Here is the first one. it was so bad I didn't even bother lifting it out, I just cut a window out of the side with No roots to encourage some but I think this one is too far gone anyway and when its thick enough I will have to do a full ground layer.

IMG_2060.jpg
IMG_2061.jpg
IMG_2063.jpg
IMG_2064.jpg
 

Drew

Shohin
Messages
371
Reaction score
774
Location
London
USDA Zone
9
The second TM was a bit better but still not great:
IMG_2065.jpg
IMG_2066.jpg
IMG_2067.jpg
IMG_2068.jpg
IMG_2070.jpg
 

Drew

Shohin
Messages
371
Reaction score
774
Location
London
USDA Zone
9
so I cut windows into this one and back in the ground:
IMG_2071.jpg
IMG_2072.jpg
IMG_2074.jpg
 

Drew

Shohin
Messages
371
Reaction score
774
Location
London
USDA Zone
9
This next one however is 1 of the 6 airlayers I took off a Japanese Maple I have in April 2015.... It seems it makes a massive difference to start with a good root structure before anything else. They have all been grown on boards and the roots are now really tight together. I cut back only the thicker roots and one or two others that were crossing. I didn't touch any of the feeder roots, I just combed them out, screwed a new board back under it and put it back in the ground, hopefully this will help them to fuse together more;
IMG_2076.jpg
IMG_2077.jpg
IMG_2078.jpg
IMG_2079.jpg
IMG_2080.jpg
IMG_2081.jpg
IMG_2083.jpg
IMG_2084.jpg
 

Brian Van Fleet

Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Messages
13,959
Reaction score
45,886
Location
B’ham, AL
USDA Zone
8A
That last JM is going to be a monster pancake!
 

Drew

Shohin
Messages
371
Reaction score
774
Location
London
USDA Zone
9
That last JM is going to be a monster pancake!

Will be interesting to see how its developed in 2 years time. There are 5 other airlayers growing in the same grow bed which I have't looked at yet, hopefully they all look similar.
 

Drew

Shohin
Messages
371
Reaction score
774
Location
London
USDA Zone
9
This was the same tree on the 17th Mar 2017 just before it went in:

JapaneseMapleAirlayer4.jpg
 
Top Bottom