Opinions on an Amur Maple being auctioned

wireme

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Honestly I think I'd rather start from seed than spend money on that. The high ugly root, the dead part of the trunk. It looks like someone tried to rush a tree into a bonsai, failed then tried to sell it. Reading the thread was just for intertainment and had no influence on my opinion.


Oh, I see. You wrote that you were 2 years in and wanted to learn about material so I assumed you had paid attention to peoples thoughts and comments about the material. I was just wondering how you felt about the contradiction here. My words vs smoke on a maple, ha, no I don’t expect to change any minds there but the words of the person who happens to be on the top of smokes list vs absolutely everybody else. It’s gotta make some people think a bit, especially newer folks I would have thought. So I was curious, thought there would be at least a little internal debate there and I was wondering how you came to a conclusion.

I don’t all that often come forward with opinions and advice here myself, usually do my own thing on my own threads.
 

BonsaiNaga13

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Oh, I see. You wrote that you were 2 years in and wanted to learn about material so I assumed you had paid attention to peoples thoughts and comments about the material. I was just wondering how you felt about the contradiction here. My words vs smoke on a maple, ha, no I don’t expect to change any minds there but the words of the person who happens to be on the top of smokes list vs absolutely everybody else. It’s gotta make some people think a bit, especially newer folks I would have thought. So I was curious, thought there would be at least a little internal debate there and I was wondering how you came to a conclusion.

I don’t all that often come forward with opinions and advice here myself, usually do my own thing on my own threads.
You ask my opinion of the tree then try to see if u can use me to ur defense against smoke... The tree is garbage if u can't hold ur own don't step in the ring. You could buy a few good prebonsai for the price of that dying tree. I don't see why so many try to be "different" or contradictory then look for others to come to their defense. If I wanted to spend $100 on something I'd burn I'd just buy some weed...
 

_#1_

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the words of the person who happens to be on the top of smokes list vs absolutely everybody else. It’s gotta make some people think a bit, especially newer folks
I'm still quite green with this hobbie at around 3-4 years but I do knows who's who on this site.

When i read mr Paul's thoughts on this tree, I was shocked to say the least.

But maybe people's mind might change when more detailed photos emerges..
 

wireme

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You ask my opinion of the tree then try to see if u can use me to ur defense against smoke... The tree is garbage if u can't hold ur own don't step in the ring. You could buy a few good prebonsai for the price of that dying tree. I don't see why so many try to be "different" or contradictory then look for others to come to their defense. If I wanted to spend $100 on something I'd burn I'd just buy some weed...

Hello Mr thick skin!!

I asked how the thread affected your opinion of the tree in slightly different words but that’s what I meant. Using you to... no, not even ballpark close.

I don’t care who is right or wrong about the tree, I am arguing against a dismissive attitude towards others opinions and accomplishments basically. I think the site has lost a lot of quality content due to that. Smoke is smoke, has his way of lightning fires under people’s asses and truly does want to advance the hobby.., I think anyways, sometimes it feels like he’s trying to drive people away and someone like me may get into it. It’s harder to step away from than I thought,
 

wireme

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I'm still quite green with this hobbie at around 3-4 years but I do knows who's who on this site.

When i read mr Paul's thoughts on this tree, I was shocked to say the least.

But maybe people's mind might change when more detailed photos emerges..


Thanks for a nice human response. It is interesting the divided view.
 

Bolero

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I'm still quite green with this hobbie at around 3-4 years but I do knows who's who on this site.

When i read mr Paul's thoughts on this tree, I was shocked to say the least.
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/acer-ginnala-styled.18951/page-8
But maybe people's mind might change when more detailed photos emerges..
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/acer-ginnala-styled.18951/page-8so

I am amazed that so many poster's here find Walter Pall's Critique & Opinions Re the OP Amur Maple are ill founded.....after all he is an acknowledged Bonsai Genius, Master, Gardner.......
 

rockm

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https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/acer-ginnala-styled.18951/page-8so

I am amazed that so many poster's here find Walter Pall's Critique & Opinions Re the OP Amur Maple are ill founded.....after all he is an acknowledged Bonsai Genius, Master, Gardner.......
Note that most of the people that are at cross purposes with Mr. Pall's advice have a number of years (some in double digits) actually working with trees and some with amur maple. The original tree is not worth the trouble. Mr. Pall's examples (Mr. Pall being in a league of his own) have far superior attributes--decent 360 nebari for one. Less than half of the trunk being dead for another. His trees have also obviously been cared for. This one in the pic is a crap shoot. After working on my own amurs for the last 15 years or so, the deadwood is NOT a good thing. All that deadwood is there for a reason. That reason is that someone chopped it, it died back severely, probably taking half the root mass with it.
 

rockm

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https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/acer-ginnala-styled.18951/page-8so

I am amazed that so many poster's here find Walter Pall's Critique & Opinions Re the OP Amur Maple are ill founded.....after all he is an acknowledged Bonsai Genius, Master, Gardner.......
And the "master gardener" thing is nice, but it's not an end-all, be-all or final word thing. In fact, some question the title's ultimate value...
http://www.thesurvivalgardener.com/becoming-a-master-gardener/

FWIW, most of the master gardeners I've met have absolutely no experience with bonsai. Some do, and HATE IT because it "brutalizes" plants...:rolleyes:o_O
 
D

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When does a Japanese Maple, become a Bonsai...???

when my friends who know nothing about bonsai ask me similar questions, i respond with "bonsai is a practice, art form and industry, not a tree"

when discussing a tree's merit, the question is not whether it is a bonsai or not. Rather, the question is whether it is suitable material for doing bonsai-type things with bonsai-type goals and interests

the attached deshojo is not a bonsai, but nobody here would say that it does not have bonsai potential. All of the negative attributes working against the tree posted by the OP are absent from this deshojo.

This is the point that most of us see and have been trying to explain. For $15 this deshojo has a far greater potential than that $150 amur maple. In 30 years this desjojo will be showing promise, whereas that amur might be dead.
 

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wireme

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Note that most of the people that are at cross purposes with Mr. Pall's advice have a number of years (some in double digits) actually working with trees and some with amur maple. The original tree is not worth the trouble. Mr. Pall's examples (Mr. Pall being in a league of his own) have far superior attributes--decent 360 nebari for one. Less than half of the trunk being dead for another. His trees have also obviously been cared for. This one in the pic is a crap shoot. After working on my own amurs for the last 15 years or so, the deadwood is NOT a good thing. All that deadwood is there for a reason. That reason is that someone chopped it, it died back severely, probably taking half the root mass with it.

The closest thing I have for the sake of conversation only.

Past and present, the starter trunk that my fingers hold is of course dead. Moused 3 or 4 years before the first pic. 5A873F36-35DF-438D-A50F-A580B2031985.pngC28285C2-A15F-419C-BD92-6DBF22B15137.jpeg
 

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rockm

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The closest thing I have for the sake of conversation only.

Past and present, the starter trunk that my fingers hold is of course dead. Moused 3 or 4 years before the first pic. View attachment 245690View attachment 245687
FWIW, the OP and I work a lot further south than you. Owen Reich (no slouch as a bonsai expert) has seen this species suffer when grown in more Southern latitudes. I can agree with that observation. This species tends to die back and have rot issues even here in relatively cool No. Virginia. The OP is further south than me in Tennessee I believe. This is another complicating factor.
 
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FWIW, the OP and I work a lot further south than you. Owen Reich (no slouch as a bonsai expert) has seen this species suffer when grown in more Southern latitudes. I can agree with that observation. This species tends to die back and have rot issues even here in relatively cool No. Virginia. The OP is further south than me in Tennessee I believe. This is another complicating factor.

Yup, im not confident that tree would have stayed healthy in our near constant mugginess. Im glad @Bolero picked it up to keep it further north. Funny you should mention Owen, i just did a workshop with him Saturday and came out of it way less wanting for new trees and way more wanting to apply some of the styling ideas and techniques I learned to my current trees! Had a great day on Sunday picking a new front and wiring a boxwood I've been sitting on since last year.
 

wireme

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FWIW, the OP and I work a lot further south than you. Owen Reich (no slouch as a bonsai expert) has seen this species suffer when grown in more Southern latitudes. I can agree with that observation. This species tends to die back and have rot issues even here in relatively cool No. Virginia. The OP is further south than me in Tennessee I believe. This is another complicating factor.

Absolutely, wouldn’t recommend an Amur of any quality where the op is unless it’s for resale.

I’ve discussed with Owen which of my tree species would do alright down there and was surprised that there are a number that will.
 
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This is after very minor Pruning, very minor Carving, visit the OP for comparisons...will sit til next year now, Comments welcomed, even Smoke
View attachment 246923View attachment 246924View attachment 246923View attachment 246924


Nice work - I'm glad you kept that tree up North. I don't think our humidity would be good for that deadwood at all. However, its working out great for all the juniper cuttings I just stuck! I'm glad you ended up with a tree that you enjoy. :)
 

Bolero

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My plans for the Amur Maple are to leave the smooth bark side alone for now...The Deadwood side will be Carved as follows, a narrow 1/4 of trunk diameter Carved out area following the Trunk Offshoot from Bottom to the Top of the Trunk with some very minor Carving on the Left side to Highlight a few Anomalies there...
Also I have to somehow encourage foilage on the deadwood side top...
I am considering the Amur Maple a Shohin ….
Comments welcomed...
 
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