Wiring Trunk for Taper

Ayxowpat · Aug 14, 2019

Hello y'all,

What do you guys think of wiring the base of the trunk and applying pressure on the sap flow to increase thickening? I do not find it as a good way to increase taper since it leaves deep scars and I assume that it blocks the tree's metabolism in some way. I just want to know what are your opinions?

Adair M · Aug 14, 2019

It works great if you like ugly trees!

Ayxowpat · Aug 14, 2019

Adair M said:
It works great if you like ugly trees!

Yes it creates ugliness on the base but what else is there bad for this application?

Tieball · Aug 14, 2019

Well.....The tight wire will most likely give you quite a bulge above the wire. It’s like your trying to air layer.

bonsaichile · Aug 14, 2019

Ayxowpat said:
Yes it creates ugliness on the base but what else is there bad for this application?

Isn't this enough?

River's Edge · Aug 14, 2019

Ayxowpat said:
Yes it creates ugliness on the base but what else is there bad for this application?

Enough of them get sold and marketed that people begin to accept the crap and think its Bonsai.
Seriously, that is the best question you have about Bonsai?

WNC Bonsai · Aug 14, 2019

For some this ugliness adds character and apparently in Japan it is done on pines. It won’t girdle the tree since the bark and cambium will simply grow around and over the wire. The damage will come if you try to remove the wire at a later date since you are likely to rip the bark off. I recently tried removing an embedded wire from a small juniper branch and weakened it so much it later broke off under its own weight.

Ayxowpat · Aug 14, 2019

River's Edge said:
Enough of them get sold and marketed that people begin to accept the crap and think its Bonsai.
Seriously, that is the best question you have about Bonsai?

I have better ones but I need to learn why is this procedure bad. There are some people here who tries to teach this technique as 'a good one to increase thickening'. More, he sold many of pines with deep wire scars on trunk and he depends that 'there are no scars it is the growing pattern'. I knew he was lying but couldn't tell people how it is bad.

Ayxowpat · Aug 14, 2019

bonsaichile said:
Isn't this enough?

It is already a bad technique for me, I would never apply such one. I am trying to learn what are the other aspects.

bonsaichile · Aug 14, 2019

Ayxowpat said:
It is already a bad technique for me, I would never apply such one. I am trying to learn what are the other aspects.

BOnsai is all about esthetics. If a technique produces ugly results, then it is useless for bonsai IMO.

Ayxowpat · Aug 14, 2019

bonsaichile said:
BOnsai is all about esthetics. If a technique produces ugly results, then it is useless for bonsai IMO.

I am not defending the technique. It is bad, okay, we are on the same page. Yes it is clear that it creates ugly results. BUT what else? Is there more needed to be considered? Can it be said that the wire cuts through the living tissue as it grows and it creates flaws on branching or some other issues?

Adair M · Aug 14, 2019

No, that’s it. The tree will live just fine. It will callous around the wire, engulf it, and carry on. The bulges created will be blantantly obvious for decades.

The technique is used by mass producers to get a “salable” product as quickly as possible. These trees are sold to novices and beginners, and as house warming gifts in Japan.

Because the practice is done in Japan, there are those who think this is a valid practice to create quality bonsai. But it’s not. Unless the tree is VERY VERY old, 50+ years old, it is considered to be a trash tree.

Mind you, outside of Japan, they’re Expensive. Why? Because of all the costs of importing.

Don’t confuse “cost” with “quality”.

MrWunderful · Aug 14, 2019

Some people use the tourniquet on deciduous ABOVE soil level to get a wide base, then cover up the bulge with soil to start developing roots from the bulge to get a jumpstart to good trunk flare.

Works great on maples, I am currently trying it on Zelkovas but will need another 2-3 years to see if it shakes out.

Dont know how well it will work on conifers though.

Adair M · Aug 14, 2019

MrWunderful said:
Some people use the tourniquet on deciduous ABOVE soil level to get a wide base, then cover up the bulge with soil to start developing roots from the bulge to get a jumpstart to good trunk flare.

Works great on maples, I am currently trying it on Zelkovas but will need another 2-3 years to see if it shakes out.

Dont know how well it will work on conifers though.

Yeah, that’s basically making a ground layer. For that, I approve!

Igor. T. Ljubek · Aug 14, 2019

A video on how to add more "taper" on trees with using a wire on trunks/branches and let the new wood to completely grow over wire in next years: watch from 3:35 and/or 4:03 on.

I would never do such a thing to my trees ...

Ayxowpat · Aug 14, 2019

Thank you all. Now I am enlightened. As I said before, I would never apply this technique to any of my trees. However, I need to learn the 'why' part to encourage the people who are misguided.

Adair M · Aug 14, 2019

Igor. T. Ljubek said:
A video on how to add more "taper" on trees with using a wire on trunks/branches and let the new wood to completely grow over wire in next years: watch from 3:35 and/or 4:03 on.

I would never do such a thing to my trees ...

Yes, Mr. Chan is demonstrating the technique of leaving the wire in the trunks. Those trees are now so out of favor in Japan that they can’t sell them! And it’s cheaper for them to plow them under (they’re field grown) than try to dig them and sell them!

Avoid!

Traken · Aug 14, 2019

Adair M said:
Yes, Mr. Chan is demonstrating the technique of leaving the wire in the trunks. Those trees are now so out of favor in Japan that they can’t sell them! And it’s cheaper for them to plow them under (they’re field grown) than try to dig them and sell them!

Avoid!

And just like you'd mentioned, he showed one that had been wrapped a decade ago, and still looked as twisty as a barber pole and even still had wire visible.

Adair M · Aug 14, 2019

Traken said:
And just like you'd mentioned, he showed one that had been wrapped a decade ago, and still looked as twisty as a barber pole and even still had wire visible.

Now, I have seen some yamadori Ponderosa pines with twisted trunks that look incredible! But, the twists aren’t uniform. I suppose, given another 75 years, some carving, Mr. Chan’s tree might look better...

Traken · Aug 14, 2019

Adair M said:
Now, I have seen some yamadori Ponderosa pines with twisted trunks that look incredible! But, the twists aren’t uniform. I suppose, given another 75 years, some carving, Mr. Chan’s tree might look better...

Yeah, I don't think twists are necessarily bad, but the uniformity is very visually obvious. I suppose you could maybe try to wire it unevenly, so that it doesn't look quite so uniform, but it'd still take next to forever for the wire to be consumed and the trunk to eventually look like it's naturally twisted rather than artificially manipulated.

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