Bald cypress

punsai · Aug 14, 2019

Hi guys. I want to know what is the best time of the year to put in the ground a couple of bald cypress that I have? For a future bonsais, maybe in 5 years...
The trees has 1 year old.

Thanks for your help.

Adair M · Aug 14, 2019

You can stick then in the ground most anytime.

just.wing.it · Aug 14, 2019

Where are you?

punsai · Aug 14, 2019

just.wing.it said:
Where are you?

Texas

Zach Smith · Aug 15, 2019

For one year old seedlings, I'd wait till spring. The growing season is about over, and there's not much chance your seedlings will grow enough to get established for winter time (I know that neither you nor I get much winter, but I wouldn't plant out any seedlings right now for fear they wouldn't survive the coming months). And you really won't gain anything planting out now. FWIW

punsai · Aug 15, 2019

Zach Smith said:
For one year old seedlings, I'd wait till spring. The growing season is about over, and there's not much chance your seedlings will grow enough to get established for winter time (I know that neither you nor I get much winter, but I wouldn't plant out any seedlings right now for fear they wouldn't survive the coming months). And you really won't gain anything planting out now. FWIW

Thanks for the tip

choppychoppy · Aug 15, 2019

punsai said:
Hi guys. I want to know what is the best time of the year to put in the ground a couple of bald cypress that I have? For a future bonsais, maybe in 5 years...
The trees has 1 year old.

Thanks for your help.

Don't put them in the ground. They will create a better root system and flare better in a large flat container.

punsai · Aug 15, 2019

choppychoppy said:
Don't put them in the ground. They will create a better root system and flare better in a large flat container.

How long more do you recommend me on the container?

rockm · Aug 15, 2019

choppychoppy said:
Don't put them in the ground. They will create a better root system and flare better in a large flat container.

This is extremely arguable. BC in the ground have VASTLY more room for the roots to run, which increases the buttressing and flare exponentially. That's why the VAST majority of actual BC bonsai have been developed from trees grown in the ground all their lives...The timeline for developing comparable flare and buttressing in a container is at least quadruple that of initial in-ground cultivation. The BC below was grown in a muddy area of a local pond from a sapling over only 15 years before it was root chopped and containerized. Such growth is never attained in a pot.

GGB · Aug 15, 2019

I think you'll need to decide what trunk caliper you're after. Choppys method is great (lots of control) but rockm is the only option if you want a massive tree. The one pictured is far larger than I personally would ever work with because I'm scrawny as hell. But the bigger you go the more convincing they become

Bonedigger kennels · Aug 15, 2019

rockm said:
This is extremely arguable. BC in the ground have VASTLY more room for the roots to run, which increases the buttressing and flare exponentially. That's why the VAST majority of actual BC bonsai have been developed from trees grown in the ground all their lives...The timeline for developing comparable flare and buttressing in a container is at least quadruple that of initial in-ground cultivation. The BC below was grown in a muddy area of a local pond from a sapling over only 15 years before it was root chopped and containerized. Such growth is never attained in a pot.

View attachment 257615

THAT is a beautiful tree.

rockm · Aug 15, 2019

GGB said:
I think you'll need to decide what trunk caliper you're after. Choppys method is great (lots of control) but rockm is the only option if you want a massive tree. The one pictured is far larger than I personally would ever work with because I'm scrawny as hell. But the bigger you go the more convincing they become

Ground growing produces small, refined trunks as well. It doesn't just make huge massive trees. You will never get as much fluting and buttressing on BC grown in containers all their lives, as you will with ground grown trees. The tree below is only 15-18 inches tall, yet has very nice buttressing --which is mostly below the soil line to protect it. It was originally collected by Zach Smith. Such fluting and buttressing will not develop in container grown trees--believe me, I've looked through HUNDREDS of BC at nurseries which have been grown in containers. None of them had ANY buttressing to speak of

Unfortunately the tree below wound up as winter kill last year--it broke my heart to see it go. Had detailed plans for it...

punsai · Aug 15, 2019

rockm said:
Ground growing produces small, refined trunks as well. It doesn't just make huge massive trees. You will never get as much fluting and buttressing on BC grown in containers all their lives, as you will with ground grown trees. The tree below is only 15-18 inches tall, yet has very nice buttressing --which is mostly below the soil line to protect it. It was originally collected by Zach Smith. Such fluting and buttressing will not develop in container grown trees--believe me, I've looked through HUNDREDS of BC at nurseries which have been grown in containers. None of them had ANY buttressing to speak of

Unfortunately the tree below wound up as winter kill last year--it broke my heart to see it go. Had detailed plans for it...
View attachment 257621

Sorry. The first one is beautiful!
Thanks for sharing.

GGB · Aug 15, 2019

@rockm Bummer, that thing is a beaut. I remember you mentioning a winter kill in another thread. Musta been that guy. I have plans for a zach smith tree, I'm on his "list".
I won't pretend to have all kinds of experience, but as someone who's growing BC in conatiners for a couple seasons I think the trick is a good root prune and a Large and shallow container like choppy said. Versus the tall nursery can. Keeping all the roots in a single plane causes fluting pretty quickly on a young tree from what I'm seeing. Obviously buying a nice dug-specimen will always trump that. And if punsai has space to ground grow he'll get there that much faster.
And yeah "pics or it didn't happen" I'm at work until sun down today and the pictures wouldn't cause shock and aww anyway. But on a five year old tree the fluting is definitely beginning above each healthy lateral root.
I'm going to do a side by side test next year. Sometimes it's disheartening to see how much faster my grow bed trees grow versus container specimens.

punsai · Aug 15, 2019

What do you think @BillsBayou ?

BillsBayou · Aug 15, 2019

I think a 5 year plan for a yearling BC is ambitious. I've got saplings in pots for 5 years before I even begin to look at them. But then, I don't put anything into the ground.

If you want to fatten up the trunk, a few years in the ground will definitely fatten up the tree the quickest. Be sure to place a large piece of slate or floor tile beneath the tree. That'll give you the best start on getting it into a growing container whenever it's time to pull the tree from the ground.

As for placing it in the ground, Zach has a good point on waiting until spring. I don't know how cold it gets in Dallas. Zach and I could drop a sapling in the ground today and it'd be fine. So wait until Spring.

punsai · Aug 15, 2019

BillsBayou said:
I think a 5 year plan for a yearling BC is ambitious. I've got saplings in pots for 5 years before I even begin to look at them. But then, I don't put anything into the ground.

If you want to fatten up the trunk, a few years in the ground will definitely fatten up the tree the quickest. Be sure to place a large piece of slate or floor tile beneath the tree. That'll give you the best start on getting it into a growing container whenever it's time to pull the tree from the ground.

As for placing it in the ground, Zach has a good point on waiting until spring. I don't know how cold it gets in Dallas. Zach and I could drop a sapling in the ground today and it'd be fine. So wait until Spring.

Thanks master

BillsBayou · Aug 16, 2019

rockm said:
Such growth is never attained in a pot.

Challenge accepted

Cajunrider · Aug 16, 2019

punsai said:
Hi guys. I want to know what is the best time of the year to put in the ground a couple of bald cypress that I have? For a future bonsais, maybe in 5 years...
The trees has 1 year old.

Thanks for your help.

Most any time. In the middle of summer, due to busy work schedule I can't keep up with watering them so I don't plant BC in the ground in July, August. Other than those months, I plant them whenever I can in Louisiana (9A)

atlarsenal · Aug 16, 2019

BillsBayou said:
Challenge accepted

Better double up on your boards, Bill.

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Imperial Masterpiece

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