Repotting and half bare rooting pines

Adair M

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Boon's (JBP) repotting videos detail this as well. (I don't think his HBR technique is in the video, but its a special case. The Deciduous/Maple repotting video involves more barerooting as well.)
Yes, the video shows visually exactly the procedure I presented in words.
 

maroun.c

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I don't recall boons videos covering HBR for pines if I remember correctly. I have looked for that on many videos and doubt find any from many online videos that goes to such detail in HBR for pines.
Unfortunately many learnings and videos are also focused on specific trees for instance I struggle to find videos or tutorials on specific trees like cedar, podocarpus, some conifers like mugo.... where there's a huge confusion/controversy on decandling, when to prune/pinch, when to repot, wire and fertilize. I just wish there was clear guides like ur post above for each tree or possibly a video that goes in such detail for each tree, sort of a x tree for dummies.
Maybe medium / advanced people can relate a tree to different ones but in my case and I believe in the case of many this is not easy. Many of the questions we ask are answered to very generally which sometimes add to the confusion. I realized that we can expect experienced people to spend the time it takes for a detailed as we as above to answer questions so that makes it very tricky. I'm a moderator on a big aquarium forum and to help with this we allowed posters to post articles which get proofed by mods before being published and those became very popular and with time the presentation and publication form improved a lot.
Would be great to have those here.
 

Adair M

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I don't recall boons videos covering HBR for pines if I remember correctly. I have looked for that on many videos and doubt find any from many online videos that goes to such detail in HBR for pines.
Unfortunately many learnings and videos are also focused on specific trees for instance I struggle to find videos or tutorials on specific trees like cedar, podocarpus, some conifers like mugo.... where there's a huge confusion/controversy on decandling, when to prune/pinch, when to repot, wire and fertilize. I just wish there was clear guides like ur post above for each tree or possibly a video that goes in such detail for each tree, sort of a x tree for dummies.
Maybe medium / advanced people can relate a tree to different ones but in my case and I believe in the case of many this is not easy. Many of the questions we ask are answered to very generally which sometimes add to the confusion. I realized that we can expect experienced people to spend the time it takes for a detailed as we as above to answer questions so that makes it very tricky. I'm a moderator on a big aquarium forum and to help with this we allowed posters to post articles which get proofed by mods before being published and those became very popular and with time the presentation and publication form improved a lot.
Would be great to have those here.
To my knowledge, Boon has not made a video on how to HBR. The only way to see him do one is be there in person, either at an Intensive session, or possibly at a workshop.

Doing an HBR is like performing surgery. Each one is specific to the situation, time consuming, and demanding.
 

leatherback

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In every article I read about the use of Akadama in Japan, the fact that it's cheap is mentioned. Looks like Japanese are like us, dutch. Cheap is good, cheap we use.
The same time in the Netherlands all discussions on soil I.e. cat litter, the fact that it is cheaper then Akadama is mentioned as nr 1 argument.
I'm using Akadama, and I'll keep using Akadama. I like to use it and my trees seem to agree. Last couple of years I use pre-sieved mixes of Akadama, pumice and lava and Akadama and pumice. This year I also tried APL with fired Akadama. Think it works wel with conifers, but I'm not so fond of the reddish color.
Hm.. in my personal case.. cost is not the main reason. I spent money on trees. On post, workshops, trainings tools etcetc. So the money side it part of the hobby.

I have had one bag of akadama. Lost several trees in the first winter that I tried it. In spring I pull out a muddy lump of clay. Maybe I got a bad batch. Maybe i was unlucky. But now I use a mix that works for me, where I am not worried about the integrety of the material. Perhaps when I get to an international level my trees wont reach enough refined to be allowed to play. I might rethink it. But price.. not my core concern.
 

bwaynef

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I don't recall boons videos covering HBR for pines if I remember correctly.
Boon's (JBP) repotting videos detail this as well. (I don't think his HBR technique is in the video, but its a special case. The Deciduous/Maple repotting video involves more barerooting as well.)

I made that post because someone said Adair's text description of a standard conifer repot would be second best to working with someone knowledgable in the technique. The point of my post was that the description might actually be third best, since there's a video of Boon demonstrating a standard conifer repot. To my knowledge there isn't a video of an HBR repot ...but that wasn't the point of my post.

The HBR uses many of the same steps. It just goes a little further in cleaning out the soil for a part. I had a hard time grasping what "right up under the trunk" the first 3-4x Boon said it while I was cleaning out the rootball on my large JRP a few years ago. Apparently that step's pretty important.
 

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I was going to ask @Walter Pall about using the Ibuki mix. I have seen some of the helpers in his recent Summer repotting thread pouring the bags into the pots / slabs. For the unawares, Ibuki is an online bonsai retailer that sells cheap but quality substrate (among other things).

In all of the mixes that I've seen on the site a certain percentage of Akadama is present as well as lava and pumice. I just wondered if Walter had requested a custom mix without Akadama?
 

Walter Pall

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I was going to ask @Walter Pall about using the Ibuki mix. I have seen some of the helpers in his recent Summer repotting thread pouring the bags into the pots / slabs. For the unawares, Ibuki is an online bonsai retailer that sells cheap but quality substrate (among other things).

In all of the mixes that I've seen on the site a certain percentage of Akadama is present as well as lava and pumice. I just wondered if Walter had requested a custom mix without Akadama?

The mix I used is a new one. Mariusz Folda, the owner of IBUKI is very well aware of the problems with decomposing akadama that i mention frequently. He has done research and tests and found a method to fire akadama so that it will not decompose. He insists that otherwise his baked akadama keeps the same positive properties. I believe him.

Normally the problem with all these modern substrates, like pumice, turface, lava split etc. is that they dry out easily. To overcome this problem mainly in smaller pots I add rough peat - about 20 % or more in volume. Also coconut fibres are OK. But the problem is that these ingredients are organic and decompose eventually too. While decomposed akadama becomes loam again which stays and is dangerous, the organic components become dust and eventually get washed out, or at least are not as dangerous as loam.

Of course we know that there already is the offer of fired akadama from Japanese sources. It is quite expensive. The IBUKI fired akadama is not expensive at all in comparison.
 

Paulpash

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The mix I used is a new one. Mariusz Folda, the owner of IBUKI is very well aware of the problems with decomposing akadama that i mention frequently. He has done research and tests and found a method to fire akadama so that it will not decompose. He insists that otherwise his baked akadama keeps the same positive properties. I believe him.

Normally the problem with all these modern substrates, like pumice, turface, lava split etc. is that they dry out easily. To overcome this problem mainly in smaller pots I add rough peat - about 20 % or more in volume. Also coconut fibres are OK. But the problem is that these ingredients are organic and decompose eventually too. While decomposed akadama becomes loam again which stays and is dangerous, the organic components become dust and eventually get washed out, or at least are not as dangerous as loam.

Of course we know that there already is the offer of fired akadama from Japanese sources. It is quite expensive. The IBUKI fired akadama is not expensive at all in comparison.
Thanks for the clarification.
 

Walter Pall

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I have to add that we are working with very old collected trees mostly that will only be repotted after 10 to even 20 years. Some may be aware that I since some time use stone slabs in large quantity for very old trees. These will usually never be repotted. Threfore the fact that the substrate must stay in the same state for decades is very important for us.
 

leatherback

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On the other hand last spring I used a pre-sieved mix of Akadama an pumice, that turned to mud in august all ready.
This has been my experience with akadama.. less than a year in the pot and yellow sludge. First tree i encountered with it, i went to complain to the seller why I was sold a pine still in field clay. I was told it was potted in straight akadama. Not that it mattered. It had died over winter.

Maybe i have had bad luck and should give the stuff another chance.
 

leatherback

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If anyone wants to brag about not using akadama, fine, go ahead. Just don’t say it doesn’t work because it does!
Not really wanting to post this because i do have immense respect for what you can do with little trees.. but.. seriously.. there are people who have had really bad experiences with akadama. I can experience some 20 frost-thaw cycles in winter ranging from a loght white dust in the morning to a period of -20c / -4f. Interplaying with rain. So my pots are soaked and freeze several times in a row. i have had multiple instances of mud in a pot come spring and lost trees due to not realizing this in time.

I have no doubt about the qualities of akadama. And maybe I have just been unlucky, and i realize that using it straight as has been the case in some trees i have received is not the way it should be. But akadama is not always perfect. I feel there are valid reasons to not be completely committed to akadama.
 

Adair M

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Not really wanting to post this because i do have immense respect for what you can do with little trees.. but.. seriously.. there are people who have had really bad experiences with akadama. I can experience some 20 frost-thaw cycles in winter ranging from a loght white dust in the morning to a period of -20c / -4f. Interplaying with rain. So my pots are soaked and freeze several times in a row. i have had multiple instances of mud in a pot come spring and lost trees due to not realizing this in time.

I have no doubt about the qualities of akadama. And maybe I have just been unlucky, and i realize that using it straight as has been the case in some trees i have received is not the way it should be. But akadama is not always perfect. I feel there are valid reasons to not be completely committed to akadama.
For conifers, I don’t use it straight. I mix it with pumice and scoria. I, too, have freeze/thaw cycles. There are different brands of akadama, some are harder than others. I have no idea what you get in Germany. Right after the tsunami in Japan, it was difficult to get good akadama.

I’m sorry you had a bad experience with it, but, like I said, I don’t use it straight.
 

Paulpash

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I have to add that we are working with very old collected trees mostly that will only be repotted after 10 to even 20 years. Some may be aware that I since some time use stone slabs in large quantity for very old trees. These will usually never be repotted. Threfore the fact that the substrate must stay in the same state for decades is very important for us.
I wish ibuki was local as their 'raw' price minus postage is very cheap (wire too!). It's just the postage that makes it unfeasible unless you can buy in bulk.
 

DirkvanDreven

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The mix I used is a new one. Mariusz Folda, the owner of IBUKI is very well aware of the problems with decomposing akadama that i mention frequently. He has done research and tests and found a method to fire akadama so that it will not decompose. He insists that otherwise his baked akadama keeps the same positive properties. I believe him.

Normally the problem with all these modern substrates, like pumice, turface, lava split etc. is that they dry out easily. To overcome this problem mainly in smaller pots I add rough peat - about 20 % or more in volume. Also coconut fibres are OK. But the problem is that these ingredients are organic and decompose eventually too. While decomposed akadama becomes loam again which stays and is dangerous, the organic components become dust and eventually get washed out, or at least are not as dangerous as loam.

Of course we know that there already is the offer of fired akadama from Japanese sources. It is quite expensive. The IBUKI fired akadama is not expensive at all in comparison.
I use Ibuki pre sieved mixes for a couple of years now. This year I also use the APL mix with fired Akadama. I don't like the color, but the mix seems to work fine. Do feel that it''s a drier mix then the same mix with normal, non fired Akadama. (This mix last a long time too, by the way)
 

Adair M

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Don't risk it!
If you’re successful using your mix, and you’re happy with the results you’re getting, I wouldn’t change what you’re doing. But, if you think your trees are not as healthy as they could be, it might be the soil they’re in.

I have found that APL works great. Far better than anything I had used before.
 

RJG2

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Came for a refresher on getting pines out of nursery cans; stayed for the entertainment 🍿; learned a couple other things.

I miss @Adair M, @M. Frary, and @Anthony.

Good Day
 
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