My New JBP may need a few grafts?

River's Edge said:

I was originally taught to refrigerate the scion as well. However i have had better results without refrigerating the scions, just timing the grafting carefully! So just to be clear i have done it both ways and choose the simpler method.

Click to expand...

I do think the refrigeration step has value, particularily in situations where performing the grafting is difficult to time. The person is busy or they are responsible for assisting someone and travelling to their location with climate variations. The other obvious benefit is if a lot of similar grafts need to be done in a season (commercially) and this extends the window of opportunity by controlling the scion development.
The difficulties are in the risk of deterioration of the stem when stored, short length of time for storage, and having to start with larger scion material for the purpose of re-cutting at a later time.
Like with any grafting process the success will depend on the attention to and execution of detail, coupled with appropriate aftercare. I have seen more grafts fail after starting successfully by the person reducing the humidity to quickly! Opening the covering,exposing to direct sun,wind etc.

River's Edge said:

I do think the refrigeration step has value, particularily in situations where performing the grafting is difficult to time. The person is busy or they are responsible for assisting someone and travelling to their location with climate variations. The other obvious benefit is if a lot of similar grafts need to be done in a season (commercially) and this extends the window of opportunity by controlling the scion development.
The difficulties are in the risk of deterioration of the stem when stored, short length of time for storage, and having to start with larger scion material for the purpose of re-cutting at a later time.
Like with any grafting process the success will depend on the attention to and execution of detail, coupled with appropriate aftercare. I have seen more grafts fail after starting successfully by the person reducing the humidity to quickly! Opening the covering,exposing to direct sun,wind etc.

Click to expand...

For those readers who would like clear step by step instructions, the best article i have found in English is taken from a translated article that originated in Bonsai World: Bonsai Sekai) magazine published in Japan. (1978)
This article appeared in Bonsai International Winter 1979. I believe it was also reprinted in Bonsai Today #20.
Title of the eight page article is " Japanese Black Pine Branch grafting Techniques".
Over the years some modifications to grafting tape, buddy tape, sealants and bag techniques has occurred but the basics are the critical factors still.

River's Edge said:

For those readers who would like clear step by step instructions, the best article i have found in English is taken from a translated article that originated in Bonsai World: Bonsai Sekai) magazine published in Japan. (1978)
This article appeared in Bonsai International Winter 1979. I believe it was also reprinted in Bonsai Today #20.
Title of the eight page article is " Japanese Black Pine Branch grafting Techniques".

Click to expand...

It doesn't appear to be in BT #20

bwaynef said:

It doesn't appear to be in BT #20

Click to expand...

Sorry about that, i had that notation on the original article in pencil i must have either heard or transcribed incorrectly. i am perfectly capable of either.

River's Edge said:

Sorry about that, i had that notation on the original article in pencil i must have either heard or transcribed incorrectly. i am perfectly capable of either.

Click to expand...

Feeling contrite , i did some homework, If you have access to Bonsai Today magazines, articles on grafting JBP are included in issue #6 page 19, and issue # 41 Page 17. My thanks to BVF for his efforts in a recording and indexing content. Happy almost St. Patricks Day!
Do shiners come in green?

River's Edge said:

Feeling contrite , i did some homework, If you have access to Bonsai Today magazines, articles on grafting JBP are included in issue #6 page 19, and issue # 41 Page 17. My thanks to BVF for his efforts in a recording and indexing content. Happy almost St. Patricks Day!
Do shiners come in green?

Click to expand...

I still need to finish that...?

Brian Van Fleet said:

I still need to finish that...?

Click to expand...

My wife calls those UFO's in the quilting world they are known as unfinished objects! I just refer to them as something i intended to do sometime! When i remember, if i have time or get around to it.

River's Edge said:

My wife calls those UFO's in the quilting world they are known as unfinished objects! I just refer to them as something i intended to do sometime! When i remember, if i have time or get around to it.

Click to expand...

A round tuit (looks a lot like a wooden nickel).

0soyoung said:

A round tuit (looks a lot like a wooden nickel).

Click to expand...

Exactly, you date yourself sir! They have been collector items for decades! Precursors of cryptocurrency!

River's Edge said:

Feeling contrite , i did some homework, If you have access to Bonsai Today magazines, articles on grafting JBP are included in issue #6 page 19, and issue # 41 Page 17. My thanks to BVF for his efforts in a recording and indexing content. Happy almost St. Patricks Day!
Do shiners come in green?

Click to expand...

I checked issue #6 and the article on grafting is about needle juniper, but says the same thing works for JBP. There's one picture of JBP if memory serves. I don't think that one's it either. I don't have #41 (I don't think).

bwaynef said:

I checked issue #6 and the article on grafting is about needle juniper, but says the same thing works for JBP. There's one picture of JBP if memory serves. I don't think that one's it either. I don't have #41 (I don't think).

Click to expand...

Well then the best best, the sure bet is the article and source I originally quoted, it is for certain. I have that one. Bonsai Inernational winter 1979.

I assume you're talking about @William N. Valavanis' magazine. If so, he lists back issues to 91. I think there was a fire and lots of back issues were lost. Thanks for the heads up though.

So only 2 out of the 7 grafts took. I’m not too worried because the most important on on the first right branch was one that took!

Now my question is when I go to re graft, where on the branch in relation to the failed graft site would you try again? Same side? Closer to the trunk? Further way from the trunk? Opposite side of the branch?

Drew said:

So only 2 out of the 7 grafts took. I’m not too worried because the most important on on the first right branch was one that took!

Now my question is when I go to re graft, where on the branch in relation to the failed graft site would you try again? Same side? Closer to the trunk? Further way from the trunk? Opposite side of the branch?

View attachment 264703

View attachment 264702

View attachment 264701

Click to expand...

The key factor for graft location is design so i usually pick same side closer to the trunk if possible.

Ok cool so I might try my luck again this spring. Which area would you pick as best 1, 2 or 3 or all three spots?



I notice the flaps on the failed grafts seemed to have healed back onto the branch bark. Should I be worried about creating dead patches or at worse killing a branch the more graft I attempt on it?

Hey Drew!

I know it’s some time since you did the grafts on this one, but was just wondering how the 2 grafts that took are doing? Have they grown in as you were hoping they would? Did you redo any of those grafts that failed? Would be good to see this tree again.

Andy

the original graft is doing well. I think I might even wire it out this season maybe?

I also added 3 more scions but instead of adding (medium strength) scions in spring I used (stronger scions) at the end of October. All 3 look like they have taken

End of October 2020:





Today:




The reason for the failures the prev year? maybe the I needed to use stronger scions as the branch I was grafting to was mature? maybe the time of year (Autumn may be a better time to graft in my region)? Maybe i left the tree in the greenhouse and cooked the prev scions? maybe I just got lucky/better who knows...

Drew said:

I also added 3 more scions but instead of adding (medium strength) scions in spring I used (stronger scions) at the end of October. All 3 look like they have taken

End of October 2020:

View attachment 360164

View attachment 360167

Today:
View attachment 360169

View attachment 360168

The reason for the failures the prev year? maybe the I needed to use stronger scions as the branch I was grafting to was mature? maybe the time of year (Autumn may be a better time to graft in my region)? Maybe i left the tree in the greenhouse and cooked the prev scions? maybe I just got lucky/better who knows...

Click to expand...

Some observations from my experience to add for consideration.
1.When you are grafting lower down on more mature branches or the trunk always choose stronger scions from apical areas on the tree.
A good guideline is to match scion strength for position and age of grafting site. medium strength scion works better in a stronger, younger growing site.
2.A better choice for grafting scions choice is the past years new growth from spring decandling!
This necessitates planning ahead and specifically decandling sites on the same tree for the specific purpose of creating young healthy grafting scions for the coming winter grafting season.
3. If using the buddy style grafting film, the success rate improves if the film is carefully stretched to almost clear translucency before applying! It is more subject to desiccation and sunburn then the traditional bag method so important to provide some sun shade to the scion sites. For this reason I find the traditional bag method gives superior results. It is easy to maintain moisture levels with a syringe and apply a piece of masking tape to prevent sunburn.
4. When determining the best time, the key consideration is the tree is becoming active and the scion is less active. For my climate I choose end of January to the middle of February. Moving the tree inside for a few days and placing in the green house after grafting for a month or two. The tree is basically dormant outside, it begins to wake up after a few days inside but the candles are not pushing yet. Perform the grafts and place in greenhouse. The tree continues to become active and the candles begin to push immediately after the grafting giving a higher probability of cambium joining.
5. When placing the graft, remember to place at a slight angle to the cut so the cambium cross, Much easier to ensure cambium contact then trying to place directly in line if size is imperfect.

Well done Drew - great result!

Quick question if I may as I think I might have made a mistake with my JBP after reader your’s and @River's Edge posts. I thought you grafted in early spring - like about now? I’ve got some grafts I want to make and was planning on using the candles from last year as the scions. Have I got this wrong? Do you graft deciduous in early spring and conifers in autumn / early winter?

Thanks gents