Bjorn Bjorholm Speaks Out On Hedge Pruning

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
32,908
Reaction score
45,579
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
Sorry Mr. Know it all, your condescending 'matter of fact' tone embodies presumptuousness my friend.

In Adair's defense, you can't hear tone here, I don't think he is very proficient at typing heart into these posts, but he ain't that bad!

That said ...


it rather presumptuous to say that us in the West have figured out a better way to do bonsai than the Asians

Outside of Japanese Traditional Bonsai Standards, "better" can be true on many levels.

Monetarily alone, if a traditionally well ramified tree sells for 10k in Japan.
And a hedged tree sells for 20k in Europe.
With the same amount of overhead for each....

Better, has a new definition.

What are we basing the definition of "better" on?

This Is a ridiculous argument.

We started talking about painting didn't we?

Sure sign of a dead thread, talk of paint.

Deja Vu? Odd.

Sorce
 

Mark

Mame
Messages
150
Reaction score
166
Why choose one method over another, the results of one are superior to the other in your own estimation. If you can’t discern the difference then for you it is a waste of time to employ traditional methods. For those who clearly see the difference
there is no contest. As always, we chose the path that works for us.
 

BonsaiDawg

Yamadori
Messages
95
Reaction score
84
Location
Seattle, WA
USDA Zone
8a
In Adair's defense, you can't hear tone here, I don't think he is very proficient at typing heart into these posts, but he ain't that bad!

That said ...




Outside of Japanese Traditional Bonsai Standards, "better" can be true on many levels.

Monetarily alone, if a traditionally well ramified tree sells for 10k in Japan.
And a hedged tree sells for 20k in Europe.
With the same amount of overhead for each....

Better, has a new definition.

What are we basing the definition of "better" on?

This Is a ridiculous argument.

We started talking about painting didn't we?

Sure sign of a dead thread, talk of paint.

Deja Vu? Odd.

Sorce

Got it, thank you for the feedback.
 

bonsaichile

Omono
Messages
1,264
Reaction score
1,364
Location
Denver, CO
USDA Zone
5b
Terrible analogy, Adair. Besides, you give Japan far too much credit.

Japan's automobile production model, widely attributed as the idea of an American--William Edwards Deming--is vastly different in scope and nature to the art form of miniature trees.

Yes, Japan's ethic of hard work and attention to detail may in fact be superior to many--but not all--in the western world, but their lack of broad-mindedness, ingenuity and creativity has severly held them back. It's retarded their growth. Their Bonsai industry is just one of many other industries in a long-term, slow recession.

This godlike 'fix it' quality inherent and exclusive to the Japanese that you speak of: If your statements are true, then why have many other countries including China and South Korea, rapidly gobbled up Japanese market share for various exports, including automobiles, over the last several years??

At least it's encouraging to read that most bnut posters are logical, and agree that Walter's hedge pruning technique has just as much, if not more merit than the old Japanese way of doing it. His results prove it.

Now Adair, if you would, please do me a favor: politely remind Bjorn where he lives. He sounds lost, perhaps he forgot he moved? In case he did, let him know our American Bonsai doesn't do hard and fast rules.
That last paragraph... sorry, but you are an idiot
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,873
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
You know, this made me remember - I used to do a lot of painting. One day I was out in one of my favorite painting spots and was feeling uninspired. I think it was the middle of summer, everything was green, couldn't figure out what to paint. There was a cell phone tower in one of the fields and it caught my eye, something about the way the sun reflected off it. So I figured what the heck and made a little 6x8 painting featuring the cell phone tower.

A years or two later I was doing one of those outdoor art shows and I brought that painting along just to see what kind of response it would get. Never expected to sell it. But someone came along and purchased it. I made some kind of comment about "never expected anyone to buy that" and his response was "well, they (cell towers) are part of the modern landscape." Just as butchered trees and power lines are.
Ha! Maybe paintings of cell phone towers will become tomorrow’s painting gs of old barns!
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,873
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
Terrible analogy, Adair. Besides, you give Japan far too much credit.

Japan's automobile production model, widely attributed as the idea of an American--William Edwards Deming--is vastly different in scope and nature to the art form of miniature trees.

Yes, Japan's ethic of hard work and attention to detail may in fact be superior to many--but not all--in the western world, but their lack of broad-mindedness, ingenuity and creativity has severly held them back. It's retarded their growth. Their Bonsai industry is just one of many other industries in a long-term, slow recession.

This godlike 'fix it' quality inherent and exclusive to the Japanese that you speak of: If your statements are true, then why have many other countries including China and South Korea, rapidly gobbled up Japanese market share for various exports, including automobiles, over the last several years??

At least it's encouraging to read that most bnut posters are logical, and agree that Walter's hedge pruning technique has just as much, if not more merit than the old Japanese way of doing it. His results prove it.

Now Adair, if you would, please do me a favor: politely remind Bjorn where he lives. He sounds lost, perhaps he forgot he moved? In case he did, let him know our American Bonsai doesn't do hard and fast rules.
About that last paragraph... are you implying that the Japanese have rules about bonsai, but Americans don’t?

Hmm... interesting concept!

Here’s some pictures of some rules I found:

4A980F2A-B461-4197-AA4D-50932D30F884.jpeg
DE8DECC7-9DB1-4B65-BF71-B22324B21B3B.jpeg

Those are pretty precise rules, are they not?

These are from John Naka’s “Bonsai Techniques”. The first one. I believe he was an American.

Now, what were you saying about rules???
 

bonsaichile

Omono
Messages
1,264
Reaction score
1,364
Location
Denver, CO
USDA Zone
5b
Come on, let's be civilized. I'm tying hard, honestly.

Like : arguments instead of libels. Though a witty remark or a joke are always welcome. Humour is like love, it's a tough thing to be done the best way :)
Sorry, but I have no patience for nationalistic bs
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,873
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
This:

"Now Adair, if you would, please do me a favor: politely remind Bjorn where he lives. He sounds lost, perhaps he forgot he moved? In case he did, let him know our American Bonsai doesn't do hard and fast rules."
What’s really interesting about this is that when Bjorn went to Japan to become an apprentice, he was already very, very accomplished in bonsai!
 

Doug J

Mame
Messages
135
Reaction score
286
YOU were the one who PMed me, asking to see my trees. I showed you a couple. You said they were “ordinary”. Uh, huh. I’m wasting YOUR time???
That guy's been laying low for over 2 years so he could troll you.
 

Paradox

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
9,338
Reaction score
11,405
Location
Long Island, NY
USDA Zone
7a
Adair, You are a total waste of my time.

Please run along now...

Been here for 2 years and only have 8 posts? What are you doing here?
Lets see your trees big dog so we can see for ourselves how "good" you are.
Or do you just come here to troll people and spout bullshit?
 
Top Bottom