Where to get a live oak

Schmikah

Shohin
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I've been looking for a place to buy a southern live oak for a couple of months now and it appears pretty much impossible in Tennessee. I know there are a few places in SC and GA but I'm not a big fan of driving that far unless I'm already on a road trip (or it might be a good excuse to go). Has anyone had good experiences with online retailers for rarer tree varieties, especially live oak? I don't mind being the guinea pig but at 35 or 40 per tree for a 12" will hurt.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

The Professor
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Well, if Live Oaks do not grow naturally in your climate, you might think twice about getting a southern live oak. My experience with Q. turbinella and Q. suber, is that they are not fond of my normal method for wintering trees native to warmer climate zones than mine. I currently only have Quercus macrocarpa - the bur oak, which I can winter outdoors without special protection.

You are in Tennessee - Go for the native oaks. Live oaks are part of the white oak sub genus of the Oaks. (Quercus section Quercus) Bur oak has the most rugged, rough bark of the white & live oaks, you might want to give it a try. Leaf size can be huge on seedlings without ramification, but they do reduce dramatically with time.

If you really want an evergreen oak, try the Escarpment Live Oak from Texas, the Austin or San Antonio areas. Q. fusiformis. It would be marginally hardy in your area if your elevation is not too high.

Another oak to try is Quercus bicolor - the swamp white oak. Its bark is more coarse than white oak, and it has a somewhat better track record of surviving in a training pot or a bonsai pot. It can tolerate wet soils and dry soils, it is adaptable. Also very winter hardy. Likely native to your neck of the woods.

The diversity of oak species is bewildering. North America, including Mexico are the center of oak biodiversity, literally hundreds of species native to North America. I imagine within 50 miles of your home you have at least 10 species native, and a few introduced. You should explore. Creek banks, undercut by erosion and edges of quarries and rock outcrops are all good places to look for collectable oaks with more maturity than a seedling.

That is my 2 cents.
 

Schmikah

Shohin
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Well, if Live Oaks do not grow naturally in your climate, you might think twice about getting a southern live oak. My experience with Q. turbinella and Q. suber, is that they are not fond of my normal method for wintering trees native to warmer climate zones than mine. I currently only have Quercus macrocarpa - the bur oak, which I can winter outdoors without special protection.

You are in Tennessee - Go for the native oaks. Live oaks are part of the white oak sub genus of the Oaks. (Quercus section Quercus) Bur oak has the most rugged, rough bark of the white & live oaks, you might want to give it a try. Leaf size can be huge on seedlings without ramification, but they do reduce dramatically with time.

If you really want an evergreen oak, try the Escarpment Live Oak from Texas, the Austin or San Antonio areas. Q. fusiformis. It would be marginally hardy in your area if your elevation is not too high.

Another oak to try is Quercus bicolor - the swamp white oak. Its bark is more coarse than white oak, and it has a somewhat better track record of surviving in a training pot or a bonsai pot. It can tolerate wet soils and dry soils, it is adaptable. Also very winter hardy. Likely native to your neck of the woods.

The diversity of oak species is bewildering. North America, including Mexico are the center of oak biodiversity, literally hundreds of species native to North America. I imagine within 50 miles of your home you have at least 10 species native, and a few introduced. You should explore. Creek banks, undercut by erosion and edges of quarries and rock outcrops are all good places to look for collectable oaks with more maturity than a seedling.

That is my 2 cents.

I'm also picking up some white oak and possibly some swamp oak which are much easier to find. And, oddly, there are quite a few live oaks that are growing in East Tennessee (one of the largest is on the UTK campus) but they require a specific area to survive the winter (wind protected and no competition). I figured I would get a few seedlings and take a pass at letting them acclimate but finding the live oak, as stated, is difficult at best.

I completely agree on the native species, but I don't even want to start trying yamadori until I have a little more success with nursery stock.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

The Professor
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Woodlanders is a good place. Not a bonsai nursery but a good online source for several oaks
I have purchased a few plants from Woodlander's. Good place to find some obscure varieties. Stock is young nursery trees, not "pre-bonsai", but healthy, and a little time & pruning is the main difference between pre-bonsai and nursery stock.
 

coachspinks

Chumono
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Leo's options are good. I would add Quercus Nigra (Water Oak) to the list. The leaves are similar to the live oak but it is hardy in your area. Luckily, in bonsai you can mimic the growth of the Southern Live Oak with wire.

Note - Just because you can grow them, should you? It has also been a long time since we have had an extreme, killing cold snap in the Atlanta area. Single digit temps for an extended period of time tend to kill off a lot of plants that live here.....until it gets that cold. I would put Live Oaks in that category. I can't speak for your area but here in Atlanta we are growing a lot of plants in the landscape that we shouldn't be growing. I have perennials acting like annuals and you can see palm trees in places you shouldn't. One day, maybe, we will get temps that will kill off most of these plants.
 

substratum

Shohin
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In N.FL, I see nursery growers selling direct on Craigslist under “Farm and Garden. “ Saw one yesterday selling Live Oaks for $15/gal, $45/3-gal. Give Craigslist in your area a look. Many other varieties of plants for sale, too.
 
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Bonsai Obsessed

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If your looking for some live oak to let’s say experiment with I can supply you with some! I purchased a property in 2018 that is covered in giant live oak trees, so there are dozens of seedling to 10+ yr old trees that I am working on digging! It’s a bit of trial and error, they can be difficult to lift but I have several lifted last year and many more that I am lifting this season ( hopefully next month as bud break here is late February). If your interested I’ll keep you up to date as they leaf out following collecting.
best of luck.
 

rockm

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I've been looking for a place to buy a southern live oak for a couple of months now and it appears pretty much impossible in Tennessee. I know there are a few places in SC and GA but I'm not a big fan of driving that far unless I'm already on a road trip (or it might be a good excuse to go). Has anyone had good experiences with online retailers for rarer tree varieties, especially live oak? I don't mind being the guinea pig but at 35 or 40 per tree for a 12" will hurt.
At Zone 7a, you're at pretty much the Northern limit for southern live oak. It probably isn't going to be a great choice if you don't have good winter storage options. Native oaks are the best option, as said before.

Escarpment live oak ( Quercus fusiformis), a related live oak species native to Texas and Oklahoma would be hardier in your region than Southern Live Oak (Quercus Virginiana). FWIW, I'm in Zone 7 here in No. Va. I've had a large collected fusiformis bonsai for 20 years or so. I provide it with winter storage in a cold greenhouse every winter. Found I had problems when the temps dropped into the teens and lower over the winter.

I tried fusiformis saplings I bought in Texas here too. Found they grew fine and fast in the summer, but ALL the branching was killed off every winter...

I'm also currently working with a Grey Oak (Quercus griseum) orginally collected in New Mexico's high desert. It's a pretty decent species, with small leaves and dense twigging. I've only been working with it for three years. I don't give it much protection in the winter to see how it will weather. So far, it's doing OK. I got it from Alvaro at Cho bonsai--which might be worth a look.
 

augustine

Chumono
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Try Bonsai South online. The owners, Zach and Kathy, are good and trustworthy people.
 

Schmikah

Shohin
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I ended up going with Mossy Oak Nativ Nursery. I bought a white oak, red oak, two southern live oaks and a chestnut (for the front yard). They seemed to ship well and I'll post some pictures later of their packaging for those interested in purchasing from Mossy.

At Zone 7a, you're at pretty much the Northern limit for southern live oak. It probably isn't going to be a great choice if you don't have good winter storage options. Native oaks are the best option, as said before.

Escarpment live oak ( Quercus fusiformis), a related live oak species native to Texas and Oklahoma would be hardier in your region than Southern Live Oak (Quercus Virginiana). FWIW, I'm in Zone 7 here in No. Va. I've had a large collected fusiformis bonsai for 20 years or so. I provide it with winter storage in a cold greenhouse every winter. Found I had problems when the temps dropped into the teens and lower over the winter.

I tried fusiformis saplings I bought in Texas here too. Found they grew fine and fast in the summer, but ALL the branching was killed off every winter...

I'm also currently working with a Grey Oak (Quercus griseum) orginally collected in New Mexico's high desert. It's a pretty decent species, with small leaves and dense twigging. I've only been working with it for three years. I don't give it much protection in the winter to see how it will weather. So far, it's doing OK. I got it from Alvaro at Cho bonsai--which might be worth a look.


I do actually have a fortuitously placed south east facing window in an attached, unheated garage. I'm also working on getting a mobile greenhouse together (basically a small hoop tent). It never freezes in the garage so I'm going to split up the two oaks and see what option works best if either.

Assuming they survive what is left of the winter, next year will be the real trial after they get repotted (instead of slip potting) and get a more permanent position in the yard.
 

RKatzin

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Have you ever considered trying some Northern Live Oak? Canyon Live Oak, Coastal Live Oak and Huckleberry Oak, a dwarf form of Canyon Live Oak, are all winter hardy.
 

Schmikah

Shohin
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I have specifically thought about the coastal live oak as well, but I also had trouble finding a good place to find those.
 

RKatzin

Omono
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Try jonsteen.com they're in N. Cal. or forestfarm.com here in S. Oregon. I will be collecting oaks this spring. I also have Meyers Oak which is a dwarf White Oak that grows at higher elevations. I do have several Coastal Live Oak I've grown from plugs from the Jonsteen company.
 

Schmikah

Shohin
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Have you ever considered trying some Northern Live Oak? Canyon Live Oak, Coastal Live Oak and Huckleberry Oak, a dwarf form of Canyon Live Oak, are all winter hardy.

So, just digging around the internet, and I cannot find anything on the Northern Live oak. The canyon and coastal live oak seems to have similar warnings as the southern live oak for USDA hardiness zones (8-10 native but will grow in 7, just not to full size). Huckleberry does seem to be a good option however, there are at least a handful of references that say it is not frost tender, so that's a good sign.

My only concern with the huckleberry is the bark. I saw one description saying it is "greyish and smooth". I know oaks normally form the iconic deeply furrowed bark with (from my experience) southern live oaks having deeply rutted, non uniform ruts at maturity, so I would assume this is either a poor description or pointing towards non-mature bark (?).
 

RKatzin

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Ah yes, I was simply referring to Live Oak from the northern region, as opposed to Live Oak from the southern tier. I have 40acres that's mostly covered in Live Oak, manzanita and Huckleberry, along with a mixed forest of conifers.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

The Professor
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Have you ever considered trying some Northern Live Oak? Canyon Live Oak, Coastal Live Oak and Huckleberry Oak, a dwarf form of Canyon Live Oak, are all winter hardy.

Where is the northern Live Oak native to? I'm not familiar with the species. How far north does its range extend?
 
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