Bonsai Tonight post on akadama and soil mixtures

Lazylightningny

Masterpiece
Messages
2,257
Reaction score
2,105
Location
Downstate New York, Zone 6b
USDA Zone
6b
I came across this interesting post on Jonas Dupuich's blog regarding akadama and soil mixtures.


Jonas is a known and respected bonsai professional based in the San Francisco bay area. Granted, soil mixtures vary based on plant species and locations, but he (as well as almost all bonsai professionals and established reputable hobbyists) recommends a mixture of lava, pumice, and akadama. I experimented for years with cheaper, locally available soil materials, but have settled on this industry standard. I sometimes mix decomposed pine bark in my mixes, especially in larger, developing trees to save on the cost of akadama.

The popular "Boon Mix" adds a little decomposed granite and horticultural charcoal to this standard mix (according to Jonas). I understand the use of horticultural charcoal (absorbs toxins), but not so sure what the purpose of the decomposed granite is. Perhaps someone can enlighten me. @Adair M ?

I also know that there are many here who feel strongly about alternative similars that are locally available. I believe I tried the Napa product years ago, but was too inexperienced to know it's effect.

I have learned that trying to save money on soil is not the place to be frugal. I spend the money on top quality soil material to give my plants the best chance for health. There are various brands and hardnesses of akadama, which Jonas goes into in his blog post. I'm still experimenting with those.

This is the one I am currently using:

20200428_093123.jpg

The exception to this mix is that I use straight kanuma for ericacious (acid-loving) plants such as azaleas and blueberries.

Not wanting to start another soil war, but this is what I now do, and I feel it gives my plants a head start.

Thoughts?
 
Last edited:

MrWunderful

Omono
Messages
1,457
Reaction score
1,952
Location
SF Bay area
USDA Zone
10b
Im just here for the soils argument.

Full disclosure, I study with Jonas and use Boons mix or boons mix+pine bark and it works far better than turface, and 8822 which both I have tried.

Its very easy to get akadama in the bay area, especially since he imports it and sells it by the bag or pallet. And - I dont have to ship it 😈

Ill still use 8822 in succulents though, just not as much.
 

Lazylightningny

Masterpiece
Messages
2,257
Reaction score
2,105
Location
Downstate New York, Zone 6b
USDA Zone
6b
Im just here for the soils argument.

Full disclosure, I study with Jonas and use Boons mix or boons mix+pine bark and it works far better than turface, and 8822 which both I have tried.

Ill still use 8822 in succulents though, just not as much.
Jonas seems like a genuinely nice guy
 

Arlithrien

Shohin
Messages
395
Reaction score
502
Location
Tampa, FL
USDA Zone
9b
Some criticisms I've read is that akadama isn't expensive because it's better but because it's imported from across the world. And Japanese use it because it's what's available at the hardware stores.

Main problem with DE as I see it is a lack of particle size. If it came in larger sizes it would be a more competitive soil component. I saw some larger DE on alibaba available for bulk purchase but that's too much of a hassle. Until a larger DE size becomes widely available, products such as NAPA will be thought of as a budget soil.

Someone ought to plant 2 cuttings from the same tree in identical setups but one with akadama and one with DE for comparison. Id do it if I could get 2 identical cuttings to strike.
 
Last edited:

james

Shohin
Messages
290
Reaction score
809
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
USDA Zone
4
The soil discussion will generally be vigorous, with varied strong opinions. It’s a bit like arguing over religion. Most are born into their religion, some convert others are agnostic. Is there a clear winner, or best religion?

Regarding my soil journey, I’ve tried lots of things. Some cheap, some heavy, some easy to source and some difficult. In my earlier years I used more organic, pine bark, peat, etc. Largely because I had no teacher, I read what I could in books and tried it out. About 12 years ago, I started working with Boon, and found he had very strong feelings about soil, and how it contributed to tree health. I also found he was rather inflexible about his soil opinions. Some modification is particle size, ratios of component for conifer vs deciduous and local weather conditions. But the principle remains, therefore the term Boon mix. In fairness, I now use the Clay King mix Jonas sells, and cut it with pumice. Works well for me.

It is a personal journey. Find someone in your community you respect, who has done bonsai for a while, and has healthy trees.

The most compelling information I have is shown in the picture below. Often when Boon is working with a tree new to him, in soil other than Boon mix, he bare roots 1/2 of the tree during the first repot, the other half at next repot. Bare root half then goes into Boon mix. At the time of the second repot, tree comes out of the pot, and roots examined. In the picture below, roots that are vigorous, fresh and healthy were in Boon mix, the other half in old soil. After I saw this the first time, I was stuck by how dramatic the results were. I now see this with my trees, and for that reason this is what I use. B689351E-77A5-43CA-99CC-A7EF7C47EC11.jpeg
 

Lazylightningny

Masterpiece
Messages
2,257
Reaction score
2,105
Location
Downstate New York, Zone 6b
USDA Zone
6b
The soil discussion will generally be vigorous, with varied strong opinions. It’s a bit like arguing over religion. Most are born into their religion, some convert others are agnostic. Is there a clear winner, or best religion?

Regarding my soil journey, I’ve tried lots of things. Some cheap, some heavy, some easy to source and some difficult. In my earlier years I used more organic, pine bark, peat, etc. Largely because I had no teacher, I read what I could in books and tried it out. About 12 years ago, I started working with Boon, and found he had very strong feelings about soil, and how it contributed to tree health. I also found he was rather inflexible about his soil opinions. Some modification is particle size, ratios of component for conifer vs deciduous and local weather conditions. But the principle remains, therefore the term Boon mix. In fairness, I now use the Clay King mix Jonas sells, and cut it with pumice. Works well for me.

It is a personal journey. Find someone in your community you respect, who has done bonsai for a while, and has healthy trees.

The most compelling information I have is shown in the picture below. Often when Boon is working with a tree new to him, in soil other than Boon mix, he bare roots 1/2 of the tree during the first repot, the other half at next repot. Bare root half then goes into Boon mix. At the time of the second repot, tree comes out of the pot, and roots examined. In the picture below, roots that are vigorous, fresh and healthy were in Boon mix, the other half in old soil. After I saw this the first time, I was stuck by how dramatic the results were. I now see this with my trees, and for that reason this is what I use. View attachment 299139
A very compelling argument for his soil mix. Results don't lie.
 

River's Edge

Masterpiece
Messages
4,709
Reaction score
12,609
Location
Vancouver Island, British Columbia
USDA Zone
8b
I came across this interesting post on Jonas Dupuich's blog regarding akadama and soil mixtures.


Jonas is a known and respected bonsai professional based in the San Francisco bay area. Granted, soil mixtures vary based on plant species and locations, but he (as well as almost all bonsai professionals and established reputable hobbyists) recommends a mixture of lava, pumice, and akadama. I experimented for years with cheaper, locally available soil materials, but have settled on this industry standard. I sometimes mix decomposed pine bark in my mixes, especially in larger, developing trees to save on the cost of akadama.

The popular "Boon Mix" adds a little decomposed granite and horticultural charcoal to this standard mix (according to Jonas). I understand the use of horticultural charcoal (absorbs toxins), but not so sure what the purpose of the decomposed granite is. Perhaps someone can enlighten me. @Adair M ?

I also know that there are many here who feel strongly about alternative similars that are locally available. I believe I tried the Napa product years ago, but was too inexperienced to know it's effect.

I have learned that trying to save money on soil is not the place to be frugal. I spend the money on top quality soil material to give my plants the best chance for health. There are various brands and hardnesses of akadama, which Jonas goes into in his blog post. I'm still experimenting with those.

This is the one I am currently using:

View attachment 299094

The exception to this mix is that I use straight kanuma for ericacious (acid-loving) plants such as azaleas and blueberries.

Not wanting to start another soil war, but this is what I now do, and I feel it gives my plants a head start.

Thoughts?
The decomposed granite adds some essential nutritional elements ( such as iron and magnesium) as well as weight to the mix if desired for taller trees that are at risk of tipping if potted in a lighter mix of components. Reducing the risk of damage with pots and trees blowing off benches unless tied down.
In Japan it is common for pre bonsai JBP to be grown in decomposed granite in the fields without the use of any akadama.
Using decomposed granite can alter the soil PH so it's use should be based on the species and desired results! Ie: not used for Azalea and Japanese maples particularly in refinement. When used for developmental purposes with very frequent watering in an inorganic free draining mix it is not so much of an issue!
In fact I find it helpful and more cost effective to use decomposed granite in the mix with maples developing trunk thickness with plenty of foliage and long extension on apical sacrifice!
 
Last edited:

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
32,908
Reaction score
45,579
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
Results don't lie

Yes, but what they tell us is good fresh soil is better than bad old soil. We already know that.

I'm saying nothing except, we don't know what the other half would look like if it was in good fresh soil.

Sorce
 

Adair M

Pinus Envy
Messages
14,402
Reaction score
34,874
Location
NEGeorgia
USDA Zone
7a
The soil discussion will generally be vigorous, with varied strong opinions. It’s a bit like arguing over religion. Most are born into their religion, some convert others are agnostic. Is there a clear winner, or best religion?

Regarding my soil journey, I’ve tried lots of things. Some cheap, some heavy, some easy to source and some difficult. In my earlier years I used more organic, pine bark, peat, etc. Largely because I had no teacher, I read what I could in books and tried it out. About 12 years ago, I started working with Boon, and found he had very strong feelings about soil, and how it contributed to tree health. I also found he was rather inflexible about his soil opinions. Some modification is particle size, ratios of component for conifer vs deciduous and local weather conditions. But the principle remains, therefore the term Boon mix. In fairness, I now use the Clay King mix Jonas sells, and cut it with pumice. Works well for me.

It is a personal journey. Find someone in your community you respect, who has done bonsai for a while, and has healthy trees.

The most compelling information I have is shown in the picture below. Often when Boon is working with a tree new to him, in soil other than Boon mix, he bare roots 1/2 of the tree during the first repot, the other half at next repot. Bare root half then goes into Boon mix. At the time of the second repot, tree comes out of the pot, and roots examined. In the picture below, roots that are vigorous, fresh and healthy were in Boon mix, the other half in old soil. After I saw this the first time, I was stuck by how dramatic the results were. I now see this with my trees, and for that reason this is what I use. View attachment 299139
Here’s another picture of a pine when I was doing the second “half bare root” repot. The soil that appears white, the bottom half was the Boon Mux, niw filled with mychorrazzae. I had just started scraping the bottom when I noticed the stark difference between the two halves.


5D5BD40C-C46D-4D0D-89DB-514D5FB03933.jpeg
 

james

Shohin
Messages
290
Reaction score
809
Location
Sioux Falls, SD
USDA Zone
4
"Good fresh soil" is subjective. What is good? The point of the discussion is this very question.

Particularly with a conifer, complete bare rooting is risky. Taking all the soil out of the root ball in one go is stressful to the tree. The impacted soil deep in the root ball limits new root growth in that area. 1-2 years after the second repotting, the whole root ball will have new healthy roots. Sorce, we do know what the second half will look like when in good soil. Yet, if done in a single go, tree may not make it. This is just one way to improve overall root health, that has worked well on thousands of trees.
 

Sekibonsai

Shohin
Messages
407
Reaction score
606
Location
Santa Fe, TX
USDA Zone
8
Yes, but what they tell us is good fresh soil is better than bad old soil. We already know that.

I'm saying nothing except, we don't know what the other half would look like if it was in good fresh soil.

Sorce
Boon has scores of pictures of both sides of the rootball in ALP mix... its not an unknown.
 

rich815

Yamadori
Messages
72
Reaction score
93
Location
SF Bay Area (east bay), 10a
USDA Zone
10a
I’m less than a year into bonsai so take this for what it’s worth (I am however an award-winning orchid grower who used to lecture on growing orchids, and also have extremely successful planted fresh water aquaria setups, so I know plants). I too study with Jonas having attended his lectures, two of his in-person workshops at his nursery, read his new book and did a 1-1 video session with him a couple of weeks ago. I asked him a few months ago about adding some pine bark to the standard tried and true akadama/pumice/lava (1/3rd each) mixture to enable more time between drying out and watering or for trees wanting more moisture and his reply was every time he added organics (like bark) to that mix the plants suffered or just didn’t do as well. And that’s what works for him.

I live about 10-12 miles north of him and about equal distant from the San Francisco bay so our similar environs and his experience directly benefits me (that said I’m almost dead east of the Golden Gate and my bonsai garden is on a 4th story east-facing roof so I get a little afternoon heat and more fog and wind than he does) but it’s what works for him and should for me, at least for similar trees.

Best bet, like for when I applied thoughts on what substrate options for orchids and planted aquaria, is that it matters more the environment and it’s similarity to yours, and by environment it’s not just where you live but trees you have, pots you use, your micro-climate, watering schedule (based on your interest, attention and availability), etc.

Some others in this area ignore the advice of no organics in the mix and do just fine. So I think best advice would come from whatever local people you can find who successfully grow similar bonsai trees to you and seem to have similar habits and approach to growing, and see what they use.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
32,908
Reaction score
45,579
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
Oh no, you did misunderstand, I said good fresh soil. Not APL.

Forgive me 2.

Sorce
 

Wires_Guy_wires

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
6,412
Reaction score
10,638
Location
Netherlands
what do you use, if I may ask?
It's called vulcastrat over here. Sifted to size straight from the bag. 20kg for less than a bottle of cheap wine.
An equal mix of pumice, porous red lava rock and something blueish (granite?).
It fits my practices and climate better than akadama does.
 

River's Edge

Masterpiece
Messages
4,709
Reaction score
12,609
Location
Vancouver Island, British Columbia
USDA Zone
8b
Yes, but what they tell us is good fresh soil is better than bad old soil. We already know that.

I'm saying nothing except, we don't know what the other half would look like if it was in good fresh soil.

Sorce

As a person who promotes questioning, perhaps you should conduct an experiment and post the results in pictures to portray the results.
The fact is that many have already experienced this difference and know what the results are!

All you would have to do is repot a suitable tree with Boon Mix on one side and your fresh soil on the other side. Simple and then you will know by checking the following year for progress and comparable root structure!

I am sure with your training and experience you could attend to the watering and fertilizer requirement difference of each side of the repot.

How about it Sorce are you up for the opportunity to expand your horizons? Pursuit of knowledge, hands on learning!

I would join you but I have already been there and done that!

in fact one of my favourite activities with club presentations is to have various members bring in their soil mixes and trees! This gives everyone an opportunity to learn. Each tree is taken out of the pot and the root ball condition is checked and discussed. It is important to understand how roots work and which forms are more effective in a pot.

Everyone gets to see for themselves how well their methods work in forming root structure suitable for bonsai. In maintaining space for air and water over time. In forming a higher percentage of feeder roots.

It also becomes evident that many combinations can work, even though it is very clear that some work way better than others. Trees survive under many less than optimum conditions, they thrive when provided with better conditions.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom