Where do you find your soil?

leatherback said:

What is decomposed granite?

Click to expand...

Granite rock that has naturally weathered for a couple million years, and has naturally fractured and become crumbly. It is somewhat common in the western USA, but only the western USA. In the eastern USA, our granite has not weathered that way. I do not think it occurs in Europe at all. In use it is very much like crushed granite. Decomposed granite has a nice warm brown color that makes an attractive component to bonsai media or an attractive top dressing for a bonsai pot.

Often for show purposes, if you are not placing moss over 100% of the media, one often top dresses with a thin layer of an attractive color and texture product. Decomposed granite is popular for this in California, in the midwest we like a purple, gray and brown particle aggregate trade named "Cherry Stone", it is a crushed quartzite quarried out of New Ulm, Minnesota. Quartzite is a granite that has undergone a metamorphic process. Nice purple-gray color that looks attractive without being gaudy. The purple is subtle.

There are many other possible "top dressings" for bonsai, but these are two examples.

Decomposed granite, crushed granite, or crushed quartzite as a soil component are quite heavy. They are pretty much inert and do not hold water. As a soil component, they can be added to "dry out" a mix, to lessen water retention. But they are heavy. Large containers will become difficult to lift if filled with these granite & quartzite products. When pumice became a little more available in the midwest, most people dropped using granite or quartzite as a soil media component, in favor of pumice.

We are lucky to have at least two vendors in the Houston area (associated with the local bonsai society) who sell good quality APL mix, which I've been able to get away with using for most of my potted projects. I think I paid ~$65 for this 50lb bag :

I strongly support the previous recommendations here to source through the local clubs etc it worked great for me.

When I first started bonsai I was buying the Tinyroots stuff off Amazon which was very expensive and I've had to repot almost every tree I used it for except Brazilian Rain Trees. Their conifer mix causes root rot and kills junipers from my experience.

I prefer to measure/add my own organics (if required) either local Leaf Mold Compost or the Fox Farms ocean stuff. Most of my trees sit in 100% inorganic though.

I have a big bucket of that NAPA oil spill stuff with pine bark mixed-in that was given to me, which I use for some development projects and it has worked well with several Chinese Elms and Bougainvillea - my Junipers prefer the APL for some reason.

I am also recycling (drying/sifting/cleaning) the APL for developing tree projects , adding akadama whenever necessary, because I'm cheap like that.

Dry Stall is no longer around. I looked last year.. I went to an old feed store in Austin, Callahan's,. They had a different pumice brand 40# about $30

D E is a replacement for which part. Akadama.. Pumice or Lava..?

Oceanman113 said:

Thanks for answering, do you use this mix for a certain species or all around mix. I’ve used the cactus mix and perlite on some pre-bonsai-but worry about root rot on the older trees, is it enough drainage? Thanks!

Click to expand...

I’m in Arizona & have no problem with root rot.

PantoporosAporos said:

For what it's worth, I just found (and ordered from ) buildasoil.com . A cubic foot (~28 liters or ~7.5 gallons) cost me 32 bucks shipped. Seemed like a good deal.

Click to expand...

Just FYI youre going to have to sift the pumice and lava from them. The size is quite variable, particularly the pumice and both look like they have a lot of fines in them which you dont want.

Its more work on your part than purchasing the stuff already graded to size but if you have the time to do it, go for it.

Paradox said:

Just FYI youre going to have to sift the pumice and lava from them. The size is quite variable, particularly the pumice and both look like they have a lot of fines in them which you dont want.

Its more work on your part than purchasing the stuff already graded to size but if you have the time to do it, go for it.

Click to expand...

Good to know!

Arizona bonsai said:

I’m in Arizona & have no problem with root rot.

Click to expand...

I use it in all plants & I sift both of them.

There’s a “farm supply” store in Orange County, CA that has cheap pumice and seedling orchid bark.

PantoporosAporos said:

Good to know!

Click to expand...

I should have added that once you see how much youre actually going to have to sift out, what you get might not be such a bargan.
If you lose half the volume to fines and pieces that are too big, is it worth it?

Paradox said:

I should have added that once you see how much youre actually going to have to sift out, what you get might not be such a bargan.
If you lose half the volume to fines and pieces that are too big, is it worth it?

Click to expand...

That's quite possible. The reviews there indicate little to no powder and consistent sizing, but I'll find out when it gets here! The only thing I can get locally is perlite, which requires an obscene amount of sifting... Anyway, it seemed like a good deal. Maybe it will live up to it!

Bonsai Jack - bonsaijack.com
Buy in bulk if you have many trees like me. I don't work there but believe this is the most economical way without mixing it yourself.

PantoporosAporos said:

That's quite possible. The reviews there indicate little to no powder and consistent sizing, but I'll find out when it gets here! The only thing I can get locally is perlite, which requires an obscene amount of sifting... Anyway, it seemed like a good deal. Maybe it will live up to it!

Click to expand...

Its definitely worth looking into. Im judging based on the pictures of the product on their web page.
I have not purchased from them to know for sure. Update us when you can.

BackyardBonsai said:

Bonsai Jack - bonsaijack.com
Buy in bulk if you have many trees like me. I don't work there but believe this is the most economical way without mixing it yourself.

Click to expand...

Good stuff there!! Thanks!

I have granite and volcanic rock local to me in 1/4” & smaller size. Is either a good substitute for pumice after sifting?

I have done some research on both, they are different materials but act in a similar way as a soil. I have sifted the volcanic rack that I had, not too many fine.
I think I will try it as a soil additive.

I have 1/4” & finer granite as a landscape yard cover rock. I think I will sift some of that also.

Paradox said:

He is in the Azores where lava and pumice are in the area there. You can see his location under his name.

Please put your location on your profile so people do not have to keep asking you.
We will not remember that you posted in this thread that you are from NJ.

I am from Long Island, NY (you can see that under my name)
I get most of my soil components at Bonsai shows.

The Mid Atlantic Bonsai Societies has a show every year somewhere between Pennsylvania and Connecticut.
It got cancelled this year because of COVID but that is where I get most of my soil components.

I have gotten some components from American Bonsai Supply when something got low

American Bonsai UltraAgg Bonsai Soil

American Bonsai UltraAgg Bonsai Soil

www.americanbonsai.com

Yes soil can be expensive, particularly when shipping is involved. When I was new, I didnt want to spend money on "dirt" and tried to find things local to me that were cheap or free. In short: my trees lived but didnt thrive in those soil mixes. You need to have trees that are very healthy and vigorous to do bonsai.

You could also check local clubs and see if they have a means of getting soil components with a group in a bulk order to make shipping cheaper.

I would recommend that instead of trying to find cheap alternatives to proven soil components, that you limit the number of trees you have to the amount that you can take care of both in expense for supplies as well as time to do the things they need to take care of and develop. Probably not the answer you want to hear because when we are new, we always want more trees....until we realize how out of control it can become.
Soil is a very important part of bonsai. If its not right for your area and your condtions, you will have problems.
Unhealthy trees can lead to dead trees and those cant be made into bonsai.

Click to expand...

Hello from Queens, NYC! I was hoping you could instruct me as to some usable soil components for the region as well as some tree species. I have access to me terrace, however, it is southern facing - full sun - all day without any access to relief. What so you suggest for species and soil mix, I'd like to mix my own.

Thank you,

Lou

skaukatt said:

Hello from Queens, NYC! I was hoping you could instruct me as to some usable soil components for the region as well as some tree species. I have access to me terrace, however, it is southern facing - full sun - all day without any access to relief. What so you suggest for species and soil mix, I'd like to mix my own.

Thank you,

Lou

Click to expand...

If you have a south facing terrace that gets sun all day, junipers and pines will love that. They love sun. A Japanese black pine would be a good choice.

However I would be concerned about how hot it gets on the terrace? You will have to be careful if it gets too hot so your trees dont fry.
Maples are out, they wont like the all day sun or heat that you probably get on the terrace.

If you are looking for a cheap or free mix from local sources, you will be disappointed. I tried using my own cheap/free home made mix using sand and gravel when I was new and found that it didnt work well at all. It was heavy and it didnt dry out enough between waterings to my liking. I was finally convinced to try a soil mix that is very commonly used in bonsai and I will never go back to trying cheap/free alternatives.
I use a common bonsai mix of lava, pumice and akadama. Yes if you have a lot of trees, buying soil will get expensive. Its much better to have fewer trees in better health then many trees in sub-par soil with health issues because of it IMO.

For pines and junipers, I use a ratio of 1 part pumice, 1 part lava and 1 part akadama, which is a common ratio for those species. You are going to have to figure out what ratio works best for your situation. My trees get watered once a day and sometimes twice if its a really hot day. I use an automatic sprinkler to water in the morning and Ill do a manual watering by turning on the system in the early evening if I feel the trees need it. Most of the time once a day is fine.

I buy soil components at the Mid Atlanti Bonsai Societies bonsai show every year, They have the show along the east coast somewhere between PA and CT. This year it was cancelled because of COVID. There are places online to get soil components and sometimes you can find decent deals on ebay but I would be careful whom you guy from on ebay.

Hi Sandy, thank you very much for your reply, I really appreciate it. I'll explore my options for trying to shade trees and provide somewhat of a respite from the full all day long sun and heat on my terrace. It's a challenge. Regarding the soil, it appears as though you use no organic matter, correct? I still have some turface that I used in the past and was hoping to use it in a mix for outdoor species. I'll look into the components you mentioned.

As for a brief history of my interest in bonsai, it's been years since I enjoyed the art and it was for many reasons for that. However, I'm at a point in life to be able to get back into bonsai. I've been into bonsai for over 30 years, growing mostly indoor plants since I've always been an apartment dweller. I never really had much luck despite using a huge tiered plant rack with grow lights, gravel filled trays and using tropical varieties. It just never worked out. I now have access to an outdoor terrace and the warming (slowly) weather and blooming trees in the neighborhood has inspired me to get back into bonsai. I have a wealth of tools, pot's, books, everything I need. I do need a proper soil mix! I used to be a customer of Phil Tacktill and he's sister, Ann, at Jiu San Bonsai on Long Island way back in the 1980's and bought most of my supplies and material from them. I spent so much time and money here and loved the place. I could spend hours there. It was when the shop was sold and then burned down that my interest and active participation waned. It has waned for years now. I still have everything in terms of supplies so all I need is appropriate species and soil mix suggestions for the terrace situation.

I appreciate your help and I'll be checking back in often.

Stay well,
Lou

Warlock said:

D E is a replacement for which part. Akadama.. Pumice or Lava..?

Click to expand...

Personally, I use sifted DE (Napa 8822) as a replacement for Akadama and know some others who do as well.