Pinus Peuce Yamadori from Bulgaria. Is is worth the try?

Hello everyone!
Since snow is gone and it is times of isolation and social distancing, I spend most of my time in the mountains back home in Bulgaria, discovering new trails and wandering around magical century old pine forests. There are so many gorgeous little trees..

Just a couple of days ago I bumped into this fella - a 5 needle white pine - Pinus Peuce (I suggest from the family of Pinus Strobus).

I know... Everyone would say if it's not JWP, it's not suitable for a bonsai tree. But it seems that particular tree is old enough to be a kind of a natural bonsai and has quite a lot of potential + I went already a few times to repay a visit which is already more than awkward.

As I have no experience with pines NOR with Yamadori, I decided I should get the opinion of the more experienced. So:

1. Do you think it is collectible at all or too old with well developed root system? It is on rocky ground, seemingly shallow.
2. What would be your tips for collecting it?
3. Is it still a good time to collect it or did I miss the window and have to wait until when?
4. What would be a good soil mixture for it?
5. How old is it? Is there a way to estimate its age?

From my research I know most experts would say that this tree is not suitable for a bonsai, but hey, has anyone had a Pinus Peuce?

Thanks in advance!

Welcome to Crazy!

Sounds like the white pine we have that no one....I mean...select few care to keep.

Do it!

Sorce

sorce said:

Welcome to Crazy!

Sounds like the white pine we have that no one....I mean...select few care to keep.

Do it!

Sorce

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Thanks!

If you have no experience with pines do NOT do this.
If you have no experience with collecting do NOT do this.

Get some experience growing pines first.

You know where it is. Make a detailed map so you can come back over the years, and someday you will have enough skill & confidence to begin the process, starting with clip & grow to convert it into a compact pre-bonsai. That should taken 3 to 5 years. In those final years you can also probe with a shovel the circumference of your proposed rootball. Ideally, you could sever one quadrant per year and #4 the dig year. If you're young enough you could do some wiring on your belly and have it ready to show in the year following collecting!! (I tend to be over-optimistic, a little.)

TomB said:

If you have no experience with pines do NOT do this.
If you have no experience with collecting do NOT do this.

Get some experience growing pines first.

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AGREED! Has good trunk movement, healthy, MAYBE collectible but you are not ready to collect or keep it yet. Do you have any friend that successfully collects trees? If not then leave until ready. Not everybody thinks only JWP is THE tree. Only the arrogant jerks! Plenty of other great white pines. Age of tree not that old. Maybe 35-40 years as no old bark yet.

I had to look this pine up. P. peuce is a 5 needle pine related to Japanese white pine and Pinus cembra. Its needles are not overly long, it definitely has some traits that could possibly make it a nice bonsai.

This trunk is not very large, nor is it very old. If the P. peuce is abundant in your area, there is no reason not to try collecting this specimen at the next "safe time" for collection. That would be either autumn, or late winter in your area. In the time while you are waiting for the safe time to collect, read up on Japanese white pines, as most techniques for JWP will apply to P. peuce. Also check European blogs about P. cembra as bonsai. Again, tips from that closely related species will apply to your P. peuce. Also see if you can find examples of P. peuce being used as bonsai.

Do you homework, as suggested by others above. You don't need to wait years, but get your knowledge base up a bit before attempting to collect this tree. But then DO IT. as stated by others, this tree is not that old, probably closer to 25 years than to 40 years. It will be a good first tree to practice collection techniques.

Thanks everyone for the bold, red and capslock. Probably I had to mention that I have about 6-7 years experience with bonsai. I get it and you are definitely right that I should gain experience with pines before trying to collect this one. And that is why I decided to join this forum. I am doing my homework and reading a lot and I would much appreciate your opinion on my questions above.

Forsoothe! said:

You know where it is. Make a detailed map so you can come back over the years, and someday you will have enough skill & confidence to begin the process, starting with clip & grow to convert it into a compact pre-bonsai. That should taken 3 to 5 years. In those final years you can also probe with a shovel the circumference of your proposed rootball. Ideally, you could sever one quadrant per year and #4 the dig year. If you're young enough you could do some wiring on your belly and have it ready to show in the year following collecting!! (I tend to be over-optimistic, a little.)

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Why should I convert the tree into pre-bonsai and what does this exactly mean? Because I have no experience or because of a special preparation for the tree? If the latter, I am really interested to know more! Thanks again!

Potawatomi13 said:

AGREED! Has good trunk movement, healthy, MAYBE collectible but you are not ready to collect or keep it yet. Do you have any friend that successfully collects trees? If not then leave until ready. Not everybody thinks only JWP is THE tree. Only the arrogant jerks! Plenty of other great white pines. Age of tree not that old. Maybe 35-40 years as no old bark yet.

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I like the white pine a lot as a tree. My idea is currently to create a bonsai collection of all types of pine typical for Bulgaria. Unfortunately there's noone around here experienced in collecting..

Leo in N E Illinois said:

I had to look this pine up. P. peuce is a 5 needle pine related to Japanese white pine and Pinus cembra. Its needles are not overly long, it definitely has some traits that could possibly make it a nice bonsai.

This trunk is not very large, nor is it very old. If the P. peuce is abundant in your area, there is no reason not to try collecting this specimen at the next "safe time" for collection. That would be either autumn, or late winter in your area. In the time while you are waiting for the safe time to collect, read up on Japanese white pines, as most techniques for JWP will apply to P. peuce. Also check European blogs about P. cembra as bonsai. Again, tips from that closely related species will apply to your P. peuce. Also see if you can find examples of P. peuce being used as bonsai.

Do you homework, as suggested by others above. You don't need to wait years, but get your knowledge base up a bit before attempting to collect this tree. But then DO IT. as stated by others, this tree is not that old, probably closer to 25 years than to 40 years. It will be a good first tree to practice collection techniques.

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Thanks a lot for your comment! I would then prepare for autumn, read a lot in the meantime and talk to more experienced people. Regarding P. peuce as bonsai I couldn't find anything.. But thanks for the tip about p. cembra - definitely a lot of info and good practice with this one.

How do you tell the age? Is there something specific I could examine or have a look at?

I made the age guess from my experience with eastern white pine, Pinus strobus. I may be off base, without cutting the tree in half, and counting the growth rings, there is no absolute way to know. If the tree were in my woods I'd guess 25 to 30 years, but who knows. The only way to know is "destructive", cut a similar one off just above the roots and count.

For P. strobus mature, fissured bark starts below the first branches at about 25 or so years, and does not expand much up the trunk until over 40 years.

Your tree still has relatively smooth bark. Just beginning to form plates. That is a part of my guess.

I know Bill V has some experience with these.

I would have that tree in a training pot this fall! Collect as many roots as possible. If it has tap roots and no feeders, never mind! Nice tree in my opinion.

There looks to be some Tsuga foliage in your shot too. Keep an eye out for some collectible material of that type as well.. I love my Tsuga.

MrFancyPlants said:

There looks to be some Tsuga foliage in your shot too. Keep an eye out for some collectible material of that type as well.. I love my Tsuga.

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What would you say about this one

I like it! Looks like a fir or hemlock?

That looks like nice collectable material, although hard to know what complications might be underground. Could make a nice little bunjin?

Do you know what species?

It’s fir - abies Alba and it coughs my eye right away. But You’re Absolutely right - I dug out several dead small trees nearby and the most of the roots are intertwined in rock underground and really hard to get to.. We will see when I get to the extraction. I will definitely study the ground well before that.

MrFancyPlants said:

I love my Tsuga.

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Do you have pictures posted of it? Would love to see it!

Peter44 said:

I would have that tree in a training pot this fall! Collect as many roots as possible. If it has tap roots and no feeders, never mind! Nice tree in my opinion.

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Thanks for the advice. I am worried a lot about the amount of roots I could collect without damaging the system. In this respect what would you say is more important: a) Spending more time for excavation and collecting as many roots as I can or b) transport and plant as quickly as possible given that the location is about 30 min away from home?