Balancing the Journey and Destination

Some aspects of beauty are subjective. I don't think anyone would consider a freshly trunk-chopped tree beautiful. There are some bonsai techniques that I'd suggest make a tree look not beautiful to pretty much everyone out there (without considering the process and why you're doing it -- just taking a static consideration of the tree's aesthetic). If people thought that was beautiful, they'd do it all the time, but these processes are always en route to an actual goal.

Maybe I'm wrong on that. Maybe some people do think "objectively ugly" things look good. But even so, within the context of my bonsai and my mind, beauty is not subjective or changing. I'm not planning on sharing my bonsai, it's just for me, so it seems perfectly reasonable to find a balance of beauty and necessary (not beautiful) process as defined by my own paradigm.

In any case, the responses suggest this was somehow an inappropriate question to ask and has not led where I wanted. Is there a way to close a thread for further posting?

DrTolhur said:

In any case, the responses suggest this was somehow an inappropriate question to ask and has not led where I wanted. Is there a way to close a thread for further posting?

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I think you've started an interesting discussion, and I, for one, don't think I've missed your point or that it's an inappropriate question at all. It's a great question.

My response was that you don't *have* to do the "ugly" things, and you can find a good balance that suits you. You're right that most people aren't going to think a freshly chopped tree is beautiful, but we don't have to chop. Clip and grow, without big chops or ground growing, etc. will work just fine, and maintain a tree that adheres more closely with what people think a bonsai should look like. It may take longer, but it's a viable route. Building a bonsai by reduction (chopping, fast) or addition (clip and grow, slow) is also a balance. Finding the balance and making choices that suit you and your goals is important.

Don't take the responses that do not meet your original purpose personally.

All aspects of beauty are subjective. There is no objective beauty. There are objective aspects of aesthetic which humans tend to find pleasing, but what there is nothing a-priori about beauty. You mention a trunk chop as ugly.

If I trunk chop a tree, you might view it as ugly, but I might view it as beautiful - because I've been waiting for years for the tree to grow to chop it. It was beautiful before the chop, in my eyes, to see the healthy slow materialization of age in the trunk I knew I would be keeping, and it was beautiful after the chop, because I had waited for that moment for several years, maybe. A dead tree in a forest can be as beautiful as a living tree. A dead bonsai can be as beautiful as a living bonsai, just as the passing of a loved one can be beautiful and sad as well.

The balance you are seeking isn't possible, because to you, the beauty is only found in a final, styled tree. If you can't appreciate the beauty in unrestrained growth just as much as the beauty in a final specimen, and at all the stages between, I don't think you will ever find the balance you are expecting.

And I think this was a great thread, full of thoughtful perspectives. Just because you didn't get the answer you sought doesn't mean the rest of us didn't enjoy it or want to continue talking about it.

Trees have to go thru stages to become bonsai. There are trees that are “growing out”, there are “nursery trees”, then there are “pre-bonsai”, and “bonsai in development”, and then “bonsai in refinement” and so on.

Are they all beautiful all the time? Not really.

Kinda like kids growing up. Sometimes they have to go thru the pimply faced stage. They’ll grow out of it.

DrTolhur said:

To obtain a large number of trees would costs hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars, which is not an option. So I'm fine for now just to have the few small ones that I don't really do much with except let grow for the time being. My original question was not so much about practice as philosophy.

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Hundreds of thousands of dollars is the actual number.
Maybe that will change perspective?

If the question was philosophical, there is no correct answer.

You are right! (About what?)

The closest thing to the correct answer is growing a maple in a pot it's entire life until "finished". And that is a far stretch from "beautiful" all the time. But it is the closest possible thing.

Bonsai, with all it's differences and possible directions, is still quite linear. There is only one way to get from A to B. Growth. Which must be cut off. Cut too much off, tree dies, cut too little, tree is not bonsai.

There is no way around this.

So the way to balance the destination and the journey, is by changing your mind.

Sorce

DrTolhur said:

The main theme I'm seeing in the responses is to have many trees so that some are always nice-looking, even if the majority are not. I get that, but I'm not sure it really answers what I was getting at, at least not directly. If I extrapolate a bit, when just considering one tree, the answer is that there is no balancing. You get a vision for the tree, then just do whatever is necessary to get it there without any concern for how nice it looks in the meantime.

The main challenge I have with the "many trees" direction is financial. I don't have any mature trees near the "finished" state because such a tree costs $150+. To obtain a large number of trees would costs hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars, which is not an option. So I'm fine for now just to have the few small ones that I don't really do much with except let grow for the time being. My original question was not so much about practice as philosophy.

Thanks for the responses.

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The great majority of my trees were collected at little or no cost. That usually means more time will be needed but more satisfaction with the result is also possible. There are usually a number of ways to proceed. We each find the way that suits us individually.