If these were yours?

Did some work on the ugly male tree. I really like the base and I think I can build a real nice powerful turtle back trident with this base. It needs to be chopped but there would be nothing to sprout from, or at least nothing I feel comfertable chopping back to. I think the base of wood would sprout, but why take the chance.

I feel that if I were to graft on somethinmg now, by fall I would have something to cut back and then next spring I can concentrate on my trunk method to build the tree from.

I have tried three different methods of graft here to see which one gives me the most punch. The first is just an approach graft by bending down one of the branches. the second one is also an approach graft but on this one I nailed it on with a push pin. On the first I used electrical tape since I can stretch it very well and get a good hold.

On the third one I tried something different, just to see what happens. This is sort of a Frankenstein tree anyway since I have no idea what will happen on any of these. I have my idea, but the best laid plans turn to fertilizer.

On this one I srilled a 3/16 hole somewhat vertically, very small angle. Then I cut the branch I wanted that was just a little larger, maybe 10/1000 on a caliper. I scraped the cambium till brilliant green, and then forced into the hole seating it all the way to the bottom.

Both the exposed grafts were sealed for moisture controll.

Nice post as usual Smoke. Is the third an approach also. There was an article in Bonsai Focus a while back where branches were grafted to an Azalea in that fashion. Those were done using whips growing in seperate pots. Where the trunk forked on the whip one side was cut to a stub and scraped then inserted in the manner you described. I assume you could do that with a branch that was attched to the tree you are grafting as well.

No, this graft is a modified cleft graft. No parent to keep it nourished. I will just hope for the best, but since the buds are swelling and there is green showing on each bud, I feel that the energy will help it to knit very fast. All I need is two weeks and the graft will have taken. In four weeks I will no for sure

The two approach grafts should be a nobrainer. This graft was just for fun to see if it will take.

Hey...if I need to I can always peel it when it fails and just use it for jin

Hey,

Nice post. I wish I would have read it yesterday. Today I repotted a maple with a similar "claw". Instead of removing the bark and cambium (guess I'm less gutsy) I circled each of the individual "fingers" with wire and tightened them down so they just started to cut into the bark. I removed some of the large deeper roots and planted the whole tree deeper in the pot. I might add some sand as you have. Good idea. Do you think this will work in a similar fashion?

Jason said:

Hey,

Nice post. I wish I would have read it yesterday. Today I repotted a maple with a similar "claw". Instead of removing the bark and cambium (guess I'm less gutsy) I circled each of the individual "fingers" with wire and tightened them down so they just started to cut into the bark. I removed some of the large deeper roots and planted the whole tree deeper in the pot. I might add some sand as you have. Good idea. Do you think this will work in a similar fashion?

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If the tree is a trident it may not send out roots before it encircles the wire. I have used wire above ground to add flare to small shohin like tridents and elms. By adding wires under the soil you will not really be able to see what is happening. I think the "wound" will be so small and insignificant, that is will just heal over and never miss a beat.

Keep me posted I want to see what happens either way...flare or roots!

Working on both these trees tomorrow. Hope to have a pot full of roots! If the time is ripe...bonsai pot!

The other, I know the grafts have taken, I'm still am not sure what I'm going to do with it. tomorrow I make the decision. I bought a new pull saw and a new die grinder, that should give you a hint...eh...

I am excited to see what happens! This is a very helpful thread (as most of yours are), thank you.

I am planning a similar project with a trident I have, and wonder if there is a reason you left one root unpeeled? I'm also wondering about timing for starting this project, how many weeks before normal spring repotting time is good for this type of project? Or is it at the normal time?

Also, I'm wondering if you did any top work other than the grafts at the same time you did root work?

Thanks Judy, For me, I do a lot of work on trees that many people should not do, especially if you have limited access to material or have a smaller budget for material. Many of the things I do would be marginal for some people in much different climates than mine also. If the piece is expendable than go ahead and try some new things. If the piece is the result of saving for six months and not doing a couple of family fun things, then I would recommend a more prudent schedule of work.

I left one root unpeeled because it looks to be in a position that is where I want roots to form anyway. I may still clip it off, but at least I know roots will form there after that.

Top work......I usualy take off most if not all the branches of all the tridents I work on. I try to get the bottom in a better place and chugging along and then start working on the top. You will be surprised when you see the plant I ground layered right now. The top is smooth as a billiard ball, except for all the stubs I left for this years branch growth. The branches were let to grow all year, then I cut them back in early fall, around Labor day, let them set buds and then kept it pinched. All the stubs are ready this year for a massive push due to a lot of fertilizer and good summer care. Hopefully with the bottom re-energised with it's new base and the top set to push a good growth spurt, I can train a new canopy on this in about three years.

I guess we will all have to check back here next year and see if all that happens.

If I may ask one more question, re-reading (again) the thread, there was a mention of a "transfusion board", that was not to be a collar for the roots to go out not down. Can you enlighten us about that part of the process?

The tree that I'm looking to work with a ground layer is a new (fairly inexpensive) trunk I recently got. I like the shape of the trunk, base has decent flare, but it has no good rootage at the surface, all the branching needs to be reworked. But the dead branch that I just carved around was what I bought this for. I was thinking to do the ground layer and chop all the branching back at bud swell... opinion?

I will start a thread and post pics there, so I don't glom up this terrific thread with it...
Thanks again.

Sorry about the "Transfusion Board" remark. As you can tell I like to build a little drama into my story telling when I do write for the boards. I think it's entertaining and keeps people coming back for look sees.

Ever had a transfusion? Its just a place where two tables are rolled side by side so that blood from one person can flow to the other. I screwed a board to a trash can and screwed that board to the other tree so that I could approach graft some branches from one tree to the other.

It did sound like I was doing something really technical didn't it? I'm not sure if I took a picture or not. I accidently hit a button on my photo editing software that came with my camera and it was a button that would import all the pictures I have on this computer to the editor for editing. Well it started downloading pictures and it said it was going to be tied up for two hours and a half. I had over 17,559 pictures on my hard drive! So finding a picture takes some time sometimes......

Alllrighty then...
Yes I think we all agree that you're an entertaining part of this forum, as well as an informative part.
thanks for the clarification!

Well on the first tree I had the roots I needed to sever the ugly bottom claw from the top. The roots came in Ok but not as well as I would want. I think there is enough there to support the tree.

As I begin to cut away the claw I find that most of the bald knob I left last year was completely covered with callous material. In fact in one area it had completely bridged a large root and grown back to join the two. This is not good on a ground layer. All layers on tridents should have a safty wire around the peeled area to keep the callous from growing back together. Once it touches the sugars go thru and roots will not grow here.

The last pics show the tree with it's own set of new roots.

I potted the tree in a round Dick Ryerson pot. Based on the leaves left on the tree and the scarlet color, this should be a nice combo when the canopy is finished.

Maybe that will look better next year!

The four sides of the tree starting with the front view......for now!

EDIT: actually pic two is the front

great progress. I've always been under the impression that potting in a bonsai pot at an early stage of development would slow down the progress. Do you disagree with this? Thanks

LordEOfBeckley said:

great progress. I've always been under the impression that potting in a bonsai pot at an early stage of development would slow down the progress. Do you disagree with this? Thanks

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If I didn't already have a 2.25 inch trunk and magnificent taper I would agree with you. This tree will only need fine branches and this pot is surly capable of providing me that.

I wouldn't throw a pencil size tree in a bonsai pot and expect to grow a trunk like this there though.

Si Nguyen said:

Hi Al and everybody, these are pretty good material! For the first trident, I got a semi-cascade or slant style feeling from it. I wouldn't bother with all the branch or root grafting stuff. Life is too short.
I think there must be at least 2-3 good options with a slant or semi-cascade position, but I would need to see more pics from different views of this tree to be sure. Here's one option from your first view. I think this will make a nice shohin in a few short years.
Good luck!

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After carefull analysis, I determined that this may be the best course of action. All three grafts failed, so I have decided to try this semi cascade look. I do not have a trident in this configuration and this intrigues me.

Let's do it.

Wait another year.

Repeat.

I did not like the Dick Ryerson round pot I put the tree in. I took it out, (couple days later) not recently, and placed it into this old Chinese yixing green clay rectangle. I think with the increased room and better harmony between pot and tree it will branch better. All the little leaves are starting to pop out!!

Updates in about a month.

Lots of curves in this one, really nice. Are you going to wire some curves into the branches if you can ?