Chinese elm - is it fungus?

BonPiotr · Aug 16, 2022

Hi,
i have recently bought my first chinese elm. After few tips in that thread (https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/first-bonsai-is-it-ok-tree.56789/#post-982675) it seems better, but it’s still shedding leaves.

At first i thought it is acclimatization process (it’s in my house for 2 weeks), but now im concerned it is fungus, because of these black dots:

It takes around 24h to make leaf from nice young green to this and it takes only touching it to fall from branch. There’s still new growth tho.

After this elm came to me it was soaking wet, so maybe this is a case (took 3 days to dry out). It can also be my bad, because at first i was misting tree daily when in shade, because of heat wave. For now I sprayed it with solution of biogold vital - https://www.bonsai.de/biogold-vital-p-5838.html?language=en (as it says it protects against fungus). My watering schedule is every 2 days as the soil is dry around 1” on top, dry at the holes in a pot and minimal wet at center.

Is it fungus? What to do?

Cypress187 · Aug 16, 2022

Why is it inside?

Also, add your climate zone to your profile. > https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/first-bonsai-is-it-ok-tree.56789/post-982700

BonPiotr · Aug 16, 2022

It is outside on balcony. My USDA is 6, i have added it to a profile

penumbra · Aug 16, 2022

BonPiotr said:
it’s in my house for 2 weeks

This is a bit confusing. If it was in your house for two weeks it is part of the problem. It is normal for a tree to shed older leaves. Question is, is it growing new leaves? It would help to have a picture of the entire plant and the soil as well.

crea7or · Aug 16, 2022

+1 for the picture of the entire tree and soil. Check for spider mites. I had a similar situation with one of my Chinese elms which I had to fully defoliate, since all the leaves turned yellow with small dots and start falling off.
After a week or so, it started to recover, going full bush mode.. but this happened because the soil mix is ok and the tree was healthy.

rockm · Aug 16, 2022

Elms can get Black Spot fungus from being too wet, or having constantly wet soil. Treatment can be a spray of baking soda

Black Spot Fungus: Getting Rid Of Black Leaf Spot

If you notice black spots on plant leaves, it's a good bet your plants are affected by black spot fungus. Learn more about this troubling disease and how to treat it in this article.

www.gardeningknowhow.com

BonPiotr · Aug 16, 2022

Here’s entire tree:

Spots cames only on new growth. Yet tree has more and more of growth. Soil is crappy, because it is dense, but it came in this pot, so repotting in august doesnt seem like a good idea:

No sign of mites.

Cypress187 · Aug 16, 2022

The soil looks very compact, you should watch out with overwatering. (that moss will also keep the soil moist).

WNC Bonsai · Aug 16, 2022

Overall, it looks pretty healthy to me. It probably is suffering from being moved around, first from the store to your house and now outside onto the balcony. I keep mine, and I have several, outside year round in zone 6b/7a. Mine is in a well draining inorganic bonsai soil and doesn’t stop growing all summer long. Give it time to adjust and next spring get it into better soil, in the meantime don’t overwater with that organic soil mix.

penumbra · Aug 16, 2022

Cofga said:
Overall, it looks pretty healthy to me. It probably is suffering from being moved around, first from the store to your house and now outside onto the balcony. I keep mine, and I have several, outside year round in zone 6b/7a. Mine is in a well draining inorganic bonsai soil and doesn’t stop growing all summer long. Give it time to adjust and next spring get it into better soil, in the meantime don’t overwater with that organic soil mix.

^^^
Also your soil is very wet and fine. It should be in a free draining mix. It is not.

crea7or · Aug 16, 2022

I would get rid of that soil and repot now. Did the same thing with a "supermarket" Chinese elm with soil like yours in October last year and it survived.

BonPiotr · Aug 16, 2022

Thanks! It was not inside, i moved tree right away to the balcony as everybody says

So should I water it less often or just use less water? Currently it is every 2 days, 3-4 passes over whole tree (around 0,5-1l of water). Everytime I check the soil with toothpick half distance between edge of pot and trunk. When it comes dry or almost dry i water the tree

Edit: @crea7or not sure about that, i would rather be cautious. October also seems safer for repotting/planting than September.

penumbra · Aug 16, 2022

BonPiotr said:
it’s in my house for 2 weeks

This was the source of the confusion. ^^^
Sounds like you are doing what you can, but you are still fighting the soil mix.

BonPiotr · Aug 16, 2022

penumbra said:
This was the source of the confusion. ^^^
Sounds like you are doing what you can, but you are still fighting the soil mix.

Yeah sorry!

I meant i have it for 2 weeks. Do you think that repotting is an option like @crea7or says? For me it seems too dangerous.

I have found that the same shop also sales that soil seperately. Probably it's composition is:
40% peat
20% gravelite (i don't know if i use right word - i mean this)
20% bark
10% perlite
5% sand
5% coconut fiber

They also have higher end one and it looks much more like bonsai soil:
40% acadama
25% lava
25% pumice
10% zeolite

rockm · Aug 16, 2022

BonPiotr said:
Yeah sorry! I meant i have it for 2 weeks. Do you think that repotting is an option like @crea7or says? For me it seems too dangerous.

I have found that the same shop also sales that soil seperately. Probably it's composition is:
40% peat
20% gravelite (i don't know if i use right word - i mean this)
20% bark
10% perlite
5% sand
5% coconut fiber

They also have higher end one and it looks much more like bonsai soil:
40% acadama
25% lava
25% pumice
10% zeolite

The first soil is crap. It is a mess and will kill roots. 40 percent peat is a death sentence for a tree in a pot. No reputable bonsai seller I know of would use such junk.

BonPiotr · Aug 16, 2022

rockm said:
The first soil is crap. It is a mess and will kill roots. 40 percent peat is a death sentence for a tree in a pot. No reputable bonsai seller I know of would use such junk.

On top of that it's called "premium"

There isn't many online bonsai stores in my country and so far it is the best one in terms of product variety.

So if it's death sentence for a tree in a pot, should I repot on fall after elm defoliates or just wait for next spring?

rockm · Aug 16, 2022

BonPiotr said:
On top of that it's called "premium" There isn't many online bonsai stores in my country and so far it is the best one in terms of product variety.

So if it's death sentence for a tree in a pot, should I repot on fall after elm defoliates or just wait for next spring?

I meant the first soil in the listing of ingredients, not the photos. The premium mix is OK. It's the soil that's preferable. The black mix is a killer.

a1dusty · Aug 16, 2022

If I receive a pre bonsai mid year , I transplant into a larger deeper pot and put fine potting grit underneath and around the root ball without touching the roots at all , this will enable the tree to drain the water more easily from root ball and then I repot as normal following spring before buds break , hope this helps

Katie0317 · Aug 16, 2022

Why don't you call the company that sold you the tree and explain what's going on. Tell them the soil was soaked when it arrived and explain what's happening now. Ask them what they suggest you do.

I agree that the soil needs to go but I have zero expertise on if you can get away with repotting now. I think that's critical though. Get it into something free draining and perhaps a bigger pot.

Did this come from Brussels Bonsai?

BonPiotr · Aug 16, 2022

Katie0317 said:
Why don't you call the company that sold you the tree and explain what's going on. Tell them the soil was soaked when it arrived and explain what's happening now. Ask them what they suggest you do.

I agree that the soil needs to go but I have zero expertise on if you can get away with repotting now. I think that's critical though. Get it into something free draining and perhaps a bigger pot.

Did this come from Brussels Bonsai?

Nah, it's a Polish company

In other thread i read that crappy soil isn't reason to do emergency repot, so for now I will just wait and watch out for overwatering. I have also sent message to shop, where i bought that elm. We will see what they think about this. I don't have high hopes, because it was the cheapest bonsai on whole website, but still I like it very much, so I try everything I can to make it happy

Edit: I have found another thread with problematic tree - same pot, same crappy soil, but totally different country. Probably it is mass imported to Europe from China, it cames with that soil and shops do nothing to improve them a little. At least my soil seems to drain well when watering, but on the other hand stays moist for too long.

Chinese elm - is it fungus?

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