“Ghost” leaves on JM, need help!

Mike Hennigan

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So I have 11 lace leaf Japanese maple seedlings that I started from seed collected from a ‘Seiryu’ green lace leaf Japanese maple. They grew well at first but then have kind of stalled out. With most of them putting out differing degrees of strange opaque leaves. Trying to figure out what is causing this. The potting soil mix I started the seeds in does seem to stay too wet, i’m Wondering if this is the root cause. Some pictures:
 

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0soyoung

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Possibly normal.
It could be a type of variegation --> you're the lucky creator of a new variety!​
Possibly too much sun.
Xanthophyls which cause yellow colors, protect the photosynthetic apparatus. A. palmatum 'Orange Dream', for example, does this. It's leaves are a nice limey-green color in shade and turn toward yellow with more sun exposure. If this is the case, the yellow color should be fairly rich.​
Possibly a mineral deficiency.
Magnesium is at the center of chlorophyll - a pinch of Epsom salt (alternatively you can make a solution for a foliar spray that will act more quickly but won't be as long lasting as when adsorbed though the roots). Iron deficiencies usually affects yellow leaves with green veins (chlorosis). Iron sulfate applied in the same fashion will restore the green.​
Possibly root anoxia
Roots need oxygen to do what they do. When they don't get it, they dump an ethylene precursor into the xylem sap. Among other things this may cause the foliage to go through the motions like it is fall already. Most likely remedy is to just stop watering so much! Otherwise, repot as the soil/substrate you are using is too fine grained to admit enough air.​

It would be most fascinating to learn that you've applied for a plant patent. :cool:
 

Solaris

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How big is their pot? A lot of the seedlings I've had stall did so because I didn't repot them timely.
 

Mike Hennigan

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How big is their pot? A lot of the seedlings I've had stall did so because I didn't repot them timely.

They’re just in seed starting cells, but large ones as far as those go. I have reported them into a free draining DE mix and hopefully they will be happier with more air around their roots, we’ll see.
 

Mike Hennigan

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Possibly normal.
It could be a type of variegation --> you're the lucky creator of a new variety!​
Possibly too much sun.
Xanthophyls which cause yellow colors, protect the photosynthetic apparatus. A. palmatum 'Orange Dream', for example, does this. It's leaves are a nice limey-green color in shade and turn toward yellow with more sun exposure. If this is the case, the yellow color should be fairly rich.​
Possibly a mineral deficiency.
Magnesium is at the center of chlorophyll - a pinch of Epsom salt (alternatively you can make a solution for a foliar spray that will act more quickly but won't be as long lasting as when adsorbed though the roots). Iron deficiencies usually affects yellow leaves with green veins (chlorosis). Iron sulfate applied in the same fashion will restore the green.​
Possibly root anoxia
Roots need oxygen to do what they do. When they don't get it, they dump an ethylene precursor into the xylem sap. Among other things this may cause the foliage to go through the motions like it is fall already. Most likely remedy is to just stop watering so much! Otherwise, repot as the soil/substrate you are using is too fine grained to admit enough air.​

It would be most fascinating to learn that you've applied for a plant patent. :cool:

This is an interesting thought, but I don’t think this is a genetic thing as the first few sets of leaves came out strong green/hints of red on all of them.

Though I did start about 200 maybe crabapple seeds this year and three of the seedlings are mostly definitely new dwarf cultivars, each very different. I am really excited about these and will be posting a thread on them soon.
 

drew33998

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They’re just in seed starting cells, but large ones as far as those go. I have reported them into a free draining DE mix and hopefully they will be happier with more air around their roots, we’ll see.
DE still holds a ton of water.
 

Mike Hennigan

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DE still holds a ton of water.

Yes, and they are maples. I use DE in all of my soil mixes. I’m talking about the difference between a bonsai mix and a sopping wet peat based seed starting mix. Also my seed mix, I added DE fines as an experiment. Lol. Don’t do that, stays wayyyy too wet.
 

drew33998

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Yes, and they are maples. I use DE in all of my soil mixes. I’m talking about the difference between a bonsai mix and a sopping wet peat based seed starting mix. Also my seed mix, I added DE fines as an experiment. Lol. Don’t do that, stays wayyyy too wet.
90 percent of mine are DE. But it does have the tendency to dry the top, middle is perfect and bottom is way too soggy. Did you pull it out of the pot to look at the roots or is it not established enough? I'm having the same issue you are but with a quince. Haven't gotten to the bottom of it. I suspect mine is a combo of not enough oxygen to the roots and fungal pathogen. The young new leaves are a great entry point for fungal pathogens from what I have read, couple that with high heat and humidity in the summer.
 

Soldano666

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.

I did start about 200 maybe crabapple seeds this year and three of the seedlings are mostly definitely new dwarf cultivars, each very different. I am really excited about these and will be posting a thread on them soon.
Ive started near 700 crabs over the past couple years. Lotttts of diversity, green bronze, gold, purple, red. And so many diffrent leaf shapes. I have some that look like hawthorn, silver maple, and then the regular almond shaped boring ones. Oh and they grow so fast. Some are pushing 5 ft with half inch trunks on thier second summer. It makes growing anything else from seed seem slow
 

Mike Hennigan

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Ive started near 700 crabs over the past couple years. Lotttts of diversity, green bronze, gold, purple, red. And so many diffrent leaf shapes. I have some that look like hawthorn, silver maple, and then the regular almond shaped boring ones. Oh and they grow so fast. Some are pushing 5 ft with half inch trunks on thier second summer. It makes growing anything else from seed seem slow
Same! I’ve got red leaves green leaves, red veins and stem with green leaves and the different leaf shapes as well. It’s pretty awesome the diversity I’ve found in just 200. Here in Ithaca, NY, there are lots of crabs of different varieties planted as street trees. I collected seed only from 3 trees but the cross pollination from all these different varieties seems to have created a lot of diversity in their offspring. Has really sparked my interest in plant breeding and genetics.
 

Soldano666

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Same! I’ve got red leaves green leaves, red veins and stem with green leaves and the different leaf shapes as well. It’s pretty awesome the diversity I’ve found in just 200. Here in Ithaca, NY, there are lots of crabs of different varieties planted as street trees. I collected seed only from 3 trees but the cross pollination from all these different varieties seems to have created a lot of diversity in their offspring. Has really sparked my interest in plant breeding and genetics.
I collect mine from the shopping center trees within in a 40 mile drive, pink flower, red flower, white flower, red fruit of all shades, gold fruit, even have a tree that went rogue behind wal mart that has orange fruit!!! I want to take some airlyers off that somebitch. I've found some trees produce higher germination rates but have had success with all of them. I can't wait to see what I get for flowers and fruit on mine. Im the guy out there in November filling bags with rotten fruit haha.
 

Soldano666

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Oh remember to wire em young. I've also found you can bare root, chop the tap and arrange roots anytime in the first year. All the trees I did that to are light speed ahead of the untouched ones as far as radial roots go.
 

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