100% diatomite for soil?

[aphid]

Does anyone use 100% diatomite for Japanese maples? I have successfully used it for all of my tropical bonsai trees for almost 10 years now and just wondering if anyone else has any experience with it on Japanese maples. I'm planning to put several young maples in large 15" x 19" x 5" plastic trays from the Container Store. It will save a lot of money than using bonsai soil from my local bonsai store.

I get the diatomite from Napa. It's sold as an oil absorbent. I forgot how much a 5-pound bag costs because I haven't bought one for a couple of years, but it's like $10 or something.

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Oil-Absorbent-24-QT-Diatomaceous-Earth-Absorbent/_/R-NFA8822_0178972712

Here's what it looks like. For those who don't know, diatomite is fossilized aquatic plankton. It can absorb a lot of water and does not break down at all. It's hard like rock. Thanks!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I am familiar with diatoms, and diatomaceous earth. I am NOT familiar with this specific product. However there seems to be a disconnect between the product and your photos? Diatomaceous Earth is white - so any product made from pelletized diatomaceous earth would be greyish like pelletized clay. Your photo appears to be some sort of rock product? You can see not only the different colors, but the fact that the pieces are not pelletized clay. Did you mix it with something? When I do a search for "Napa Oil Dry" (your link) this is what I see:

 

[edprocoat]

Aphid, the guy here from China, I can't remember his name, uses it on all his trees. He says it keeps insects away and touts its use. He collects a lot of material and it works well for him. Do you have the surface of your plant in the picture covered with someting else like decomposed granite, it just looks the wrong color as diatomaceous earth is more whitish.

EDIT the head Nut beat me too it !


ed

 

[GrimLore]

I was going to say that looks nicer then my dry stall and turkey grit but the product you reference does not look anything like your pictures...

Grimmy

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Regardless, the problem with all diatomaceous earth products is that like any pelletized clay, they tend to break down over time. Cat litter cab be made from diatomaceous earth, but it is often not baked so it is extremely soft. The oil dry type products are baked (?) so they last longer. It seems that some products are harder and last longer than others, but there seems to be regional inconsistencies. Make sure to sift ANY of these products because as you can see in the photo they come with lots of dust and fines.

 

[aphid]

The pictures have nothing else besides diatomite. The diatomite from Napa is light brown when dry. When it's wet, it shows all sorts of colors. I'm aware that the dust is dangerous to breath so I wash it first. Before I open each bag, I fill the bag with water. All the finer particles just pour out from the holes in the bag so there's no dust at all when I use it.

 

[aphid]

Regardless, the problem with all diatomaceous earth products is that like any pelletized clay, they tend to break down over time. Cat litter is often made from diatomaceous earth, but it is often not baked so it is extremely soft. The oil dry type products are baked (?) so they last longer. It seems that some products are harder and last longer than others, but there Make sure to sift ANY of these products because as you can see in the photo they come with lots of dust and fines.

What size of sieve should I use for Japanese maples? I will have to sieve it while it's wet

The one from Napa doesn't seem to break down in my tropical bonsai trees. I'll keep an eye on how it deals with the freezing and thawing when used for the maples.

Would maples be okay with pure inorganic substrate? I use slow release Miracle Gro granules in combination with granular organic fertilizer and liquid fertilizer (Dyna Grow)

Thank you!

 

[woodguy]

I have used that exact Napa product for several years. I have used it straight on tropicals, lilac, junipers and even pines with very good success. I get really good fine roots with it. I have not used it straight on maples though. The reason being that nowadays I mix it with Turface and pine bark mainly because it is way too white on its own. Even though its not as white when wet I've never had it look like the stuff in your pictures. The down side for me, besides the bone white appearance, is that there are a lot of fines that have to be sifted out and even then what's left is on the smaller side. If you are already having success with it then I don't see any reason you can't use it with maples.

 

[Poink88]

Regardless, the problem with all diatomaceous earth products is that like any pelletized clay, they tend to break down over time. Cat litter is often made from diatomaceous earth, but it is often not baked so it is extremely soft. The oil dry type products are baked (?) so they last longer. It seems that some products are harder and last longer than others, but there seems to be regional inconsistencies. Make sure to sift ANY of these products because as you can see in the photo they come with lots of dust and fines.

Just to clarify that Napa FLOOR Dry is DE and is totally different from the regular Oil-Dri (clay).

DE is a very effective natural insect control...the fines go in between their exoskeleton and act as a grit to grind or scratch it open...which leads to dehydration.

 

[sikadelic]

What size of sieve should I use for Japanese maples? I will have to sieve it while it's wet

I just worked up about 120 pounds of this stuff last week. Like you mentioned, washing it is mandatory to remove the dust. Sieving it while wet is damn near impossible. I recommend letting it dry thoroughly or you're wasting your time. While wet, the small particles will stick to the larger ones. I dumped my washed particles in a tote and laid a box fan across the top. Stir it every few hours and it will dry within a day or two.

 

[aphid]

I just worked up about 120 pounds of this stuff last week. Like you mentioned, washing it is mandatory to remove the dust. Sieving it while wet is damn near impossible. I recommend letting it dry thoroughly or you're wasting your time. While wet, the small particles will stick to the larger ones. I dumped my washed particles in a tote and laid a box fan across the top. Stir it every few hours and it will dry within a day or two.

Do you mix it with anything else or just use 100% of it? On all plants?

 

[Jason_mazzy]

True DE does not break down like the clay. I have had some that is 10 years old and still solid. Also DE either comes in the grayish form or a multicolored orangish tan with lil red stones. I prefer the color one for looks but it does not come around in the pallets I get from Napa anymore.

 

[sikadelic]

Do you mix it with anything else or just use 100% of it? On all plants?

I have slip potted a tree and just used it to fill up the empty space. It holds much more water than what you think so be careful with your watering if you use it.

So far, my plans this year are to use the Oil-Dri, pumice (dry stall), and chopped pine bark which I bought as top soil and sifted. I also have about 100lbs of Turface so I will probably use equal parts turface and oil dri to make a third of my blend.

I will use this on all my trees but find what works best for you. Soil is a hot topic and you will get more opinions about it than you could imagine. As long as it drains well, holds nutrients, and allows air flow, you're good to go.

 

[brewmeister83]

Also DE either comes in the grayish form or a multicolored orangish tan with lil red stones. I prefer the color one for looks but it does not come around in the pallets I get from Napa anymore.

I use NAPA Oil dry in my soil mixes - what I've noticed is that the stuff I've gotten starts out the grayish white, but gains the nice tannish-red colors once you water it, and turns grayish again when it drys out. I've used that property as a moisture indicator, when the top 1/2 in. or so turns whitish again I know I have to water the trees. So far it's worked pretty well, havn't lost a plant to dehydration yet.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Also DE either comes in the grayish form or a multicolored orangish tan with lil red stones. I prefer the color one for looks but it does not come around in the pallets I get from Napa anymore.

I have never seen this. I wonder if you could order this product separately from the white?

 

[M. Frary]

I am familiar with diatoms, and diatomaceous earth. I am NOT familiar with this specific product. However there seems to be a disconnect between the product and your photos? Diatomaceous Earth is white - so any product made from pelletized diatomaceous earth would be greyish like pelletized clay. Your photo appears to be some sort of rock product? You can see not only the different colors, but the fact that the pieces are not pelletized clay. Did you mix it with something? When I do a search for "Napa Oil Dry" (your link) this is what I see:

I've been using Napa oil dry part no.8822 for a while now and it is this stuff pictured here. White when dry gray when wet.

 

[Jason_mazzy]

Yes It has been a long while for me also. When I first purchased it after finding out about it most bags were the tan when dry beautiful orangish with red and black specs when wet. Now all I ever seem to get is the grey and white. both have held up and hold water well.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Ok I did more research and it changed what I thought I knew about this stuff...

Diatomite is naturally occurring "fossilized rock" made from the skeletons of microscopic silica exoskeletons of diatoms (algae/plankton) that accumulate on the bottom of a body of water over long periods of time.

It is mined in solid form, but is lightweight for its volume (when dry it will often float on water), and breaks down and can be crushed easily. Diatomaceous Earth (like what you use in pool filters) is the crushed form of this solid mined product.

It occurs naturally in white to a light cream.

So I don't know what the colored stuff is? Is it a different product mixed in? Or a result of processing? Or artificial coloration?

[EDIT]

Doing some research on Oil Dri's site, they show the regional variations that can exist in some of their products... so it may just depend where you live and/or where it is shipped from.

And finally... a cool video about them making Pro's Choice (their version of Turface) showing the firing (calcining) process:

[video=youtube;HEBtQfV4UVE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEBtQfV4UVE&feature=player_embedded[/video]

I know - a little off-topic, but I thought this stuff was cool

I sent an email to Oil-Dri asking them about it, so we'll see if I get a response.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Final trivia... did you know diatomite (specifically diatomaceous earth) is what is used to absorb and stabilize nitro-glycerin in the manufacture of dynamite? It is this process that Nobel patented to make his $$$.

 

[M. Frary]

Diatoms are also the abrasive in tooth paste.