12 is a favorite?

Smoke

Ignore-Amus
Messages
11,576
Reaction score
19,980
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
It seems that no. 12 is a favorite of many.

Would anyone wish to make any comments on what it is that seems so evocative to garner so much favor.

Just so you know where I am coming from...it was my least favorite, from a Tokonoma display point of view. The tree is absolutely killer, but the display is dreadful. The redundencies are staggering. I hope picture three sheds more light.
 

Attachments

  • DSC_00640024.JPG
    DSC_00640024.JPG
    62.9 KB · Views: 105
  • DSC_00520013.JPG
    DSC_00520013.JPG
    78.5 KB · Views: 105
  • DSC_00530014.JPG
    DSC_00530014.JPG
    84.7 KB · Views: 109

Smoke

Ignore-Amus
Messages
11,576
Reaction score
19,980
Location
Fresno, CA
USDA Zone
9
Has anyone had enough green yet?
 

Brian Underwood

Chumono
Messages
930
Reaction score
208
Location
Santa Rosa, CA
I understand from a traditional Tokonoma display point of view it is redundant in it's message, but landscape is irresistible to us newbies, and #12 is all kinds of landscape! Personally I didn't know what the accent plant was, so I was just basing my ill-informed judgement on the scroll and the tree, which even by themselves were redundant if I think about it... Anyway, I get your point Al, but being so new at display, it was what I was drawn to. -=Brian=-
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
10,378
Reaction score
14,011
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
It is redundant and a little monotonous. The element separately are great, together they compete. A simpler scroll with a single subject-- a deer with spring velvet on its antlers, or a stream with rocks (no foliage or trees), for instance, etc. would work a bit better.

Also, the scroll is three sizes too small. It's tiring to look at, as it has detail, but it's tiny and feels cramped. If you're going for a landscape, appearing cramped short circuits things.
 

Bill S

Masterpiece
Messages
2,494
Reaction score
23
Location
Western Massachusetts
USDA Zone
5a
I am guessing the 2 locations are miles apart and don't compliment each other as is the goal.

I know much less about this aspect of the art then I know.
 

Yamadori

Shohin
Messages
320
Reaction score
8
Location
Sierra Mountains
USDA Zone
7
Rocks-rocks, pine-pine, pot depth-stand top depth. Redundancies. To an untrained eye it has nice relationships. In Keido it has many redundancies. RockM is right on with his comments.
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
10,378
Reaction score
14,011
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
"I am guessing the 2 locations are miles apart and don't compliment each other as is the goal."

But the goal is for all elements to complement one another in a display to create a cohesive mood for the viewer. Elements should suggest, or reference, each other, without being, obvious or redundant. Here, paired with a forest bonsai, the forest scroll suggests--well, actually says flatly without any room for imagination..more forest-- a circular, monotonous statement--Another scroll with a deer, for example, would expand that forest idea, to include what might walk in it--life waking after winter--, a flowering companion plant would confirm that reawakening, but in a different form. A suiseki or viewing stone would be mostly out too, as the forest already has stones in it.

You could use the scroll (which is pretty nice in itself) with a flowering companion plant, and an okimono of a forest critter, just not with a bonsai. Basically using any scroll image that contains a tree is redundant when displayed with bonsai. That's kind of frustrating, but it's still true.
 
Last edited:

misfit11

Omono
Messages
1,008
Reaction score
1,438
Location
Petaluma CA
USDA Zone
9b
This may be a bit off topic, but... Is it planted over serpentine? Just curious because I was wondering if this was advisable given the rock's makeup. Serpentine soils, for instance, are supposed to create somewhat toxic conditions for plants. I'm wondering because I think serpentine is beautiful (and CA state rock) and would like to try a root-over-serpentine project but haven't seen this. Could you shed some light on this, Al?
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
10,378
Reaction score
14,011
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
Bill,

sorry, didn't mean to sound like a schoolmarm...:eek: I am certainly no expert and could be spouting pure BS here:D, so my explanation is worth about what you paid for it:D
 
Messages
1,706
Reaction score
119
Location
Bremerton, WA
USDA Zone
8b
Mark...

Give yourself some credit man... It makes more sense to me in the context of your view.

Ironically I was thinking about #3 this morning as I was driving... and I actually rank it as my #1 now... though it seems #12 has huge problems from a "technical" stand point it's certainly a good introduction into display for the inexperianced because it presents obvious if redundant relationships. It's the milk before the meat.

Kindest regards,

Victrinia
 
Last edited:

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
10,378
Reaction score
14,011
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
Vic,

I am certainly not a kei do expert. I have a little knowledge, but certainly nothing in depth. Fly my explanation by some one with real knowledge would probably be like throwing a sporting clay in front of a professional trap shooter. BANG BANG, pieces fall tinkling in air, knowing silence (hey, is that a haiku? :D )

If anyone is really interested, IBC has a forum devoted to viewing stones and display that draws some of the best Western practitioners of kei do. Be on the look out for anything written by Chris Cochrane over there. He has studied display in Japan and knows a lot about some of the finer points, relationships and meanings in kei do.
 
Messages
1,706
Reaction score
119
Location
Bremerton, WA
USDA Zone
8b
So apparently then YOU are the milk before the meat as well... :cool:

I have no idea if that's haiku... but it sure made more sense than some I've read. :eek:

V
 

rockm

Spuds Moyogi
Messages
10,378
Reaction score
14,011
Location
Fairfax Va.
USDA Zone
7
All i can add is "Mooo...:"D
 

yenling83

Chumono
Messages
938
Reaction score
1,058
Location
Nipomo, CA
This may be a bit off topic, but... Is it planted over serpentine? Just curious because I was wondering if this was advisable given the rock's makeup. Serpentine soils, for instance, are supposed to create somewhat toxic conditions for plants. I'm wondering because I think serpentine is beautiful (and CA state rock) and would like to try a root-over-serpentine project but haven't seen this. Could you shed some light on this, Al?


It is over serpentine, which i"ve heard similar things about it being toxic for plants, but this tree looks to be doing fine, so I don't know what the deal is.

Smoke-
I see some of your points, I am very untrained and basically just picked what looks best to me. Bonsai is so subjective it's interesting to see people's responses and I appriciate you taking the time to photograph and post the pics.

Without being there or knowing the results, I bet I can pick out your display as well as Boon's and Jim Gremel's. Who judged this event and what type of experience do the judges have? I'm really curious to find out the results.
 
Top Bottom