18" glazed rectangle/oval

pwk5017

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Looking to acquire a glazed rectangle/oval pot for a big twin trunk japanese maple. I am not fixed on a particular color, light blue/cream probably, but more importantly, i cannot seem to find ANYTHING. My budget is about $150-200, and I was hoping to get a tokoname with decent patina. If you have experience with finding matches for your trees, where do you start? I have been trolling ebay for 6 months now and havent found anything suitable. It seems like 18"+ pots are rare. I am grateful for any help.


Patrick

p.s. is there really not a major importer of good quality pots in the US? You would think there is enough of a market to sustain one bulk importer.
 

Poink88

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...My budget is about $150-200, and I was hoping to get a tokoname with decent patina. .... It seems like 18"+ pots are rare. I am grateful for any help.

BTW, there is a reason you cannot find what you are looking for. Glazed 18" Tokoname pot w/ patina will cost a lot more than $200.00. Sorry.
 

davetree

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You're asking a lot for your budget. Good luck finding anything decent for under 200 that is 18 inches. Maybe used.
 

amkhalid

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BTW, there is a reason you cannot find what you are looking for. Glazed 18" Tokoname pot w/ patina will cost a lot more than $200.00. Sorry.

Yup.

pwk, what you are looking for is something that appeals to a very niche market in North America. If an aged pot is really important to you, your best bet would be to contact Peter Tea or Matt Ouwinga, but expect to pay MUCH more that your budget.

Even a brand new glazed rectangle by a good tokoname brand will run you way over $200 unless you are buying from a friend. 18" is a big pot.
 

thams

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For some price reference check here...

http://japanesebonsaipots.net/for-sale/

He is a member here BTW, maybe you can PM him and ask if he can help you.

He can definitely help you out - but as others have said, it'll cost you more than $200 for a tokoname pot that size. Non-production pots with good patina shoot up in price quickly.
 

pwk5017

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Yes, I know of Ryan. I correspond with him here and there whenever I have a question. He typically deals in shohin pots though, so hes a poor example. I do hear what everyone is saying concerning the budget and the product, but most tokoname pots depreciate in value. It doesnt make sense, but look at the japanese nurseries selling on ebay. Their pots have a nice patina on them and they are less than a new pot from the tokoname catalogue. Pots like I explained exist, and they exist for the price i set-- see here http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?10656-Bonsai-pots-for-sale/page4 It does appear as if you all have confirmed my suspicion. they are rare!

here are some other close examples
http://www.ebay.com/itm/22122532367...AX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_1905wt_721

http://www.ebay.com/itm/17110473110...AX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_8930wt_988

http://www.ebay.com/itm/29093876860...AX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_1313wt_750
 

amkhalid

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Yes, I know of Ryan. I correspond with him here and there whenever I have a question. He typically deals in shohin pots though, so hes a poor example. I do hear what everyone is saying concerning the budget and the product, but most tokoname pots depreciate in value. It doesnt make sense, but look at the japanese nurseries selling on ebay. Their pots have a nice patina on them and they are less than a new pot from the tokoname catalogue. Pots like I explained exist, and they exist for the price i set-- see here http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?10656-Bonsai-pots-for-sale/page4 It does appear as if you all have confirmed my suspicion. they are rare!

here are some other close examples
http://www.ebay.com/itm/22122532367...AX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_1905wt_721

http://www.ebay.com/itm/17110473110...AX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_8930wt_988

http://www.ebay.com/itm/29093876860...AX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_1313wt_750

Yes older tokoname pots in Japan are a dime a dozen. There is a reason several Japanese nurseries have popped up on north american ebay in the last few years... those pots are worth way more to westerners.

In rare instances you can get them here when people are selling at great prices, like Don was.

Outside of Japan, you will probably have to get lucky to find the pot you are looking for. I hope you find it!
 
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jkd2572

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What your missing with the examples you just showed is that the are shipped from japen and the freight cost usually matches the cost of the pot. I used to get excited then i would look at the freight chart. :(
 

pwk5017

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Yes, shipping can be a bummer. Most freight charges arent too bad, considering it is coming from half a world away. You need to be patient for sure though. 1-3 months shipping estimate!??! I dont buy one pot at a time when i buy from japan. I do a few pots per order. Combine the shipping and you save a bit. I also look at it like this, shipping in America isnt free. Typical fedex ground is going to cost $25ish.

Also, why are japanese pots a niche? What are most people using for pots? I dont consider tokoname pots to be the best of the best. I look at them as very nice everyday affordable pots. I will keep crossing my fingers that what I need pops up.
 

thams

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I would say that most people use terrible to moderately decent quality Chinese pots for their trees. There are also mass produced Japanese pots that are on the market.

It's impossible to judge Tokoname pots equally. Most are of decent quality, but are still mass produced. Others are hand-carved and can fetch a lot of money regardless of the age and patina. For example, a Hattori pot and a Heian Kozan pot are worlds different in construction and price, but both are Tokoname. It's all about the quality of the individual pot, not that it was produced in the Tokoname region. Also, there are some really really awesome antique Chinese pots that blow typical Tokoname pots out of the water. It's all about the maker!
 

rps

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I can't speak to shipping costs from Japan to the USA, but have had a number of bonsai pots and tools shipped to Canada --- through eBay vendors, directly from nurseries, the Tokoname site proper and some brokered by Ryan (mentioned several times in this string).
The shipping is always prompt, surprisingly affordable and packed beyond reproach. To Canada, a small pot (or two, if you combo up) runs between $10 to $25 for surface or $25 to $35 for expedited/air. The larger pots ship surface for between $30 to $45.
Customs and taxes are the wild card. There are no applicable duties on ceramics into Canada from Japan, but you may want to review US policy before placing an order.

three suggestions
a) look through the Tokoname site. Many of the production pots are beautiful and affordable. The sooner you plant it, the sooner it will start to build a patina of its own. For example, the 472mm (18.5") version of this Yamafusa is listed at 16000¥ (US$165) --- even with $45 S&H, you're on budget --- or reasonably close to it.
http://www.tokoname.or.jp/bonsai/gallery/78f43.htm
There are many comparable items on the site. Even if you "ain't buying", it's a fun site to simply poke around --- as well as a good starting point for some perspective on the retail value on some of the more popular kilns and potters (over-priced eBay Bigei pots comes to mind).
If interested, visit "how to order" at the bottom of the gallery page --- they are a class act.
http://www.tokoname.or.jp/bonsai/gallery/gallery1.htm
b) email Ryan (his e-address is on his blog, already linked in this thread). he ether-prowls various Japanese nursery and auction sites on a regular basis and will keep an eye out on your behalf. He may not be able to chase down what you're looking for right away, but will send a photo and a quote (this may be an estimate if it's an auction item) if/when he does stumble across something appropriate. He'll also give you a reality check if the 'wished for' is impossible.
c) check those (reputable) eBay vendors on a regular basis. As you know they post new items often, sometimes daily. The "auction" items always give you some time, but a good "buy now" posting can disappear fast. No surprises there.
I edit here to emphasize "reputable". Most of the vendors will give you shipping options (surface, SAL, air, EMS), but a few only offer the far more expensive EMS. That isn't necessarily an indication of business practices 'untoward', I'm only saying to ask first if it isn't clear on their page.

Good luck with the hunt. Let us know how things play out.
 
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pwk5017

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Awesome response.

Half my reason for posting was i didnt even know where I could purchase new tokoname. You have now provided me with that solution. Have you ordered from this site? It certainly seems like the way to go if you needed a few pots. Do a bulk order and shipping would be very comparable to purchasing in the states. I do enjoy a subtle patina on all pots. Especially glazed ones. Im not a diehard patina nut though. The 150 year old cream pots that are black now do nothing for me. When it comes to patina for me, somtimes less is more. I want it to add richness and character to the ceramic, not hide all the character under coal-black soot. Thanks again.
 

rps

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i have to confess that i'm one of those patina-mad enthusiasts --- but have never let that stand between me and a suitable pot. in fact: a couple of my own favourite pots have never been used and probably never will be [blasphemy, i suppose, on a bonsai forum --- although we are safely hidden away on the 'pots' page].

yes. i have dealt directly with the Tokoname site. they are a stand-up and honourable crew. they will be happy to provide a quote on all three of the shipping options --- and while i've never actually asked for a quote then balked, i doubt they would get too freaked out if the numbers prove daunting.
i find that they error on the side of caution with the shipping time estimates. i've never had a surface order take longer than four weeks to my door & EMS often arrive in a week or less. for what it's worth: they will give you a tracking number with EMS and SAL, but not with surface. personally, i usually bunch up the orders and go EMS or SAL --- but on some of the larger pots anything but surface is just too extravagant.

i can think of two US sources [off the top of my head] for new Tokoname ware: N.E.Bonsai and Bogan's. I'm sure there are more, but I can say I've made purchases through both of these vendors and am willing to attest to their professionalism and passion for what they sell.
http://www.nebonsai.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=NEBG&Category_Code=TOKO
http://bogansbonsai.com/bonsaipots.htm
In my own [Canadian resident] case, however, the shipping is quicker and less expensive buying directly from Japan. Not to mention the dreaded C.O.D "brokerage" fees on all UPS shipments to Canada [it's why I always insist on USPS when buying from US sources]. However, a resident of the continental USA buying domestically will do far better than yours truly.

again. please. let us know what you decide on.
 

pwk5017

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Alright, I thought I would update the thread to let everyone know that it is possible to find good quality glazed pots with a budget in mind. This will hopefully be one of three pots I will be purchasing and shipping together from japan. the pot measures 18"x1.8". It has decent patina. The glaze is ok. No visible cracks or other damage. Most of all, its within the budget!

Patrick
 

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Poink88

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Nice pot and great price :cool: ...but I do not see any patina. Maybe we define it differently.
 

Dav4

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Alright, I thought I would update the thread to let everyone know that it is possible to find good quality glazed pots with a budget in mind. This will hopefully be one of three pots I will be purchasing and shipping together from japan. $82 for the pot, which measures 18"x1.8", and $45 to ship by boat. It has decent patina. The glaze is ok. No visible cracks or other damage. Most of all, its within the budget! It should end up being closer to $100 by the time the shipping charges are spread out over three pots.

Patrick
That's a good deal.
 

pwk5017

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Dario, you must fall into the "heavy patina" crowd. I would say the bottom of the pot definitly shows signs of "patina". It is not heavy by any means, but certainly meets the classification in my book. I actually prefer this subtle patina to the coal black variety.
 

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