2 Satsuki from Raw Stock

shohin kid

Shohin
Messages
271
Reaction score
0
Location
New Haven, CT
USDA Zone
7a
These are two satsuki azaleas I picked up at a local garden center.

Step 1: Since they were being grown as shrubs for people's yards, they were cleaned up. No main branch structure was disturbed, just 1 year old and younger growth was taken off.

Step 2: I am going to put these into pre-bonsai pots next spring. They will be planted into kanuma. I will only let 5 or so buds flower on each tree so I can see what they look like. I will take a few pics and pull them off the next day. Satsukis should not flower the year they are repotted.

Step 3: I am going to set these aside to thicken the trunks for a couple of years before any major styling is done. A few branches may be wired after flowering.

Step 4: Will probably be styled as helmets.

Pics are before and after.







 

pwk5017

Shohin
Messages
366
Reaction score
10
Location
Pittsburgh
USDA Zone
6/7
Hmm, I might personally ditch the training pots and throw them in the ground if i had the option. These are pencil thickness, correct? I like the fact that the branches are nice and low. How is the nebari? Have you grown out azaleas before? I am kind of interested in their growth rate. I have several 50+ year olds(non satsuki) that i collected a year ago and it would seem you need that much time if you are shooting for anything of substance. Although, you can get 1 gallon garden center azaleas for $5 and under so no reason not to buy 20 and let them grow like hell for a decade or so.
 

amkhalid

Chumono
Messages
667
Reaction score
242
Location
Toronto
USDA Zone
6A
If your aim is to thicken the trunk, cleaning up the tree i.e. cutting off foliage is counterproductive... you're just going to have to let it grow back when you want the tree to take off... more leaves = more growth
 

october

Masterpiece
Messages
3,444
Reaction score
298
Location
Massachusetts
Hello shohin kid........ These are healthy plants, which is good. However, they are not nearly ready for any form of bonsai cultivation... The advice given earlier in this thread about putting them in the ground was a good idea..or you can put them in a large terra cotta grow pot... These trees will have to stay in the ground or a grow pot for about 5 more years before any real work can be done.. I am not trying to discourage you from working with these trees. However, as far as possibly being a good bonsai someday, they will need to grow for at least 5 more years...There really is no way around this...

Rob
 

shohin kid

Shohin
Messages
271
Reaction score
0
Location
New Haven, CT
USDA Zone
7a
If your aim is to thicken the trunk, cleaning up the tree i.e. cutting off foliage is counterproductive

more leaves = more growth

That's partially true. More roots can also lead to more growth. I know exactlly what I am doing with these. The way I pruned them they will back bud.
 

shohin kid

Shohin
Messages
271
Reaction score
0
Location
New Haven, CT
USDA Zone
7a
Hello shohin kid........ These are healthy plants, which is good. However, they are not nearly ready for any form of bonsai cultivation... The advice given earlier in this thread about putting them in the ground was a good idea..or you can put them in a large terra cotta grow pot... These trees will have to stay in the ground or a grow pot for about 5 more years before any real work can be done.. I am not trying to discourage you from working with these trees. However, as far as possibly being a good bonsai someday, they will need to grow for at least 5 more years...There really is no way around this...

Rob

In my first post I stated that these will go into grow pots for years. But bonsai training starts now. These will undergo a three year training process taught to me by the person I am learning about satsukis from.

I know what I am doing with these. I started this thread to update on the progress. I showed the first step. These will also probably be styled as helmets, so I might not even grow themfor bonsai. In Japanese satsuki shows, there are two types of satsukis there. Ones grown for flowers and ones grown for bonsai. These will probably be styled as helmets, and i am mostly growing them for flowers. I am going to do what my teacher tells me, and what I have done so far was what he recommended.
 

amkhalid

Chumono
Messages
667
Reaction score
242
Location
Toronto
USDA Zone
6A
That's partially true. More roots can also lead to more growth. I know exactlly what I am doing with these. The way I pruned them they will back bud.

If the growth you are talking about is trunk thickening then no, roots don't photosynthesize therefore don't contribute to the formation of new wood.

But sure, an abundance of roots will help a tree backbud, especially if it was just pruned, to replace the lost foliage.
 
Messages
2,776
Reaction score
18
Location
Michigan, USA
USDA Zone
5
Bonsai techniques and trunk thickening do not go hand in hand, you can not accomplish both at the same time.

Free, unrestrained growth will give you a trunk, once the desired trunk size is reached, then it is time to restrict the roots, and start development.

Either way, for back budding, leaving the foliage only at the end of the branches is not as productive as cutting the branches back to the first or second set of leaves.



Will
 
Messages
1,773
Reaction score
13
Location
Ottawa, KS
USDA Zone
6
Bonsai techniques and trunk thickening do not go hand in hand, you can not accomplish both at the same time.

Free, unrestrained growth will give you a trunk, once the desired trunk size is reached, then it is time to restrict the roots, and start development.

Either way, for back budding, leaving the foliage only at the end of the branches is not as productive as cutting the branches back to the first or second set of leaves.



Will

Satsuki azaleas are a whole area of study all their own. Shohin kid has a teacher familiar with them. I suggest we see where he is going with these. Seems they have pretty good trunks already.

Oh, and the danger with azaleas is strengthening the base at the expense of the top, because the are non-apically dominant.
 
Messages
2,776
Reaction score
18
Location
Michigan, USA
USDA Zone
5
Satsuki azaleas are a whole area of study all their own. Shohin kid has a teacher familiar with them. I suggest we see where he is going with these. Seems they have pretty good trunks already.

Oh, and the danger with azaleas is strengthening the base at the expense of the top, because the are non-apically dominant.


Imagine seeing you here Chris, quoting me at that....lol.

I have to disagree with you, the trees shown do not have pretty good trunks by any standards.

I have Satsuki growing in the ground, where they have been for three years, they are slow to thicken up, compared to other species. They back bud extremely well, but better if the outer foliage is pruned back. As with most species for bonsai, pruning out the inner and closest to the trunk foliage is counter productive.


Will
 

Dav4

Drop Branch Murphy
Messages
11,009
Reaction score
20,685
Location
North Georgia/lived in MA until 2009
USDA Zone
7b
As with most species for bonsai, pruning out the inner and closest to the trunk foliage is counter productive.


Will

I'm new to satsuki culture, but from all my research, the kid has it right as far as encouraging back budding. Stripping the interior foliage allows dormant buds to activate and is apparently the method of choice for increasing interior foliage density and ramification. I've done this on my own trees and the reponse is amazing...buds up and down the defoliated branch.

Dave
 

Rick Moquin

Omono
Messages
1,245
Reaction score
12
Location
Dartmouth, NS Canada
USDA Zone
6a
Imagine seeing you here Chris, quoting me at that....lol.

I have to disagree with you, the trees shown do not have pretty good trunks by any standards.

I have Satsuki growing in the ground, where they have been for three years, they are slow to thicken up, compared to other species. They back bud extremely well, but better if the outer foliage is pruned back. As with most species for bonsai, pruning out the inner and closest to the trunk foliage is counter productive.


Will

Can you ever get it through your thick skull that you cannot be an expert on everything. One would swear to god listening/reading your frigging verbiage that you invented bonsai and all that is associated with the practice of the craft.

THAT WAS A PERSONAL ATTACK!!!
 
Messages
2,776
Reaction score
18
Location
Michigan, USA
USDA Zone
5
Rick,

If the information I presented is wrong, by all means list out the reasons it is wrong and explain why. Take a lesson from dav4 quoted below, on topic, on subject, and disagrees without being an ass....


I'm new to satsuki culture, but from all my research, the kid has it right as far as encouraging back budding. Stripping the interior foliage allows dormant buds to activate and is apparently the method of choice for increasing interior foliage density and ramification. I've done this on my own trees and the reponse is amazing...buds up and down the defoliated branch.

This sounds good and I have read this in articles on the subject as well, but have never tried it on my own as I have acheived some good results doing the opposite. But since I have a couple in the ground, maybe I'll pick up a couple more and prune this way, it might make a good article?

Thanks Dave for the info, I'll certainly check into this more.


Will
 
Last edited:

jonathan

Sapling
Messages
25
Reaction score
0
Location
belgium
nice plants shohin kid

Got bout 4 of those aswell in my backyard (which is way to small because of all the plants atm) anyways of the for i have 3 got the same treament as yours bout 4-6 weeks ago and they start backbudding amazingly (gotta love that bout satsuki's;) ).
The 4th one got severely prunned back and got straight into his shohin pot, the trunk ain't even a pencil yet but i'm bit afraid if i let it grow freely for trunk thickening i won't be able to reduce the size of the roots anymore to the size of my pot.

anyways keep us posted on progress :D.

greets jona.
 

RyanFrye

Chumono
Messages
759
Reaction score
10
Location
Florida
USDA Zone
9
Shohin Kid,

This is an interesting technique and one I've never heard of. I'm interested to see the results. I know you'll keep us updated! Thanks for sharing.

Ryan
 

DaveV

Shohin
Messages
408
Reaction score
54
Location
Nebraska
USDA Zone
5a
Hi Rick, I am curious to know why you responded to Will's suggestion like that " you are priceless, I bow to you"

Dave V.
 

treebeard55

Chumono
Messages
763
Reaction score
84
Location
north-central Indiana, USA
USDA Zone
5A
Will, a few days ago you posted a thread about "Leading by Example." It was in response to the whole issue of flame wars and personal attacks.

You had some good things to say in that thread, things we'd all do well to heed. But I'm not seeing you follow them now.

'Nuff said by me.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Top Bottom