20 whips

[berobinson82]

Last night I came home from a workshop with 20 trident whips. 2-3 years. As the buds are swelling I was hoping to get them planted today. Since they all have "meh" roots I was imagining the best course of action would be to start working on the roots now rather than having to start in 5 years when the damage is already done. What would you do? I have ample space in the ground and I have bench space as well. I thought about threading them through some old CDs and planting them in the bed. I don't think planting them on top of boards makes sense right now as the roots are already twisted; not conducive to ideal bonsai nebari.

Just thought I would reach out for an opinion.

Thanks.

Cheers, B.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

It is a tough call... work on the roots now, set back growth. Work on roots later, set back growth

Personally, I would plant them on tiles and grow them out for several years and let the tree develop its own shallow root pad and base flare. Then when you work on the roots you won't weaken the tree as much when you trim a root here or there. On whips you can sometimes cut off 25% of the roots by simply trimming one bad root.

 

[MACH5]

Or... you could always bunch some of them altogether to make a kabudachi style bonsai.

 

[berobinson82]

Or... you could always bunch some of them altogether to make a kabudachi style bonsai.

Can I assume that an odd number of trunks is preferable? I think Al did something like this in a terracotta pot. My memory is poor.

 

[MACH5]

Yes but... I would not worry about it for now. I would gather more than you might need. This will help in getting your base thicker and provide more design choices later on specially if some die in the process.

I am doing this with a bunch of Japanese white beech this spring.

 

[yenling83]

I think you should be working on the roots during each time you repot them. That's how you make good nebari. Every time you repot, comb the roots outward, uncross tangled roots, get rid of one's that are growing too high on the trunk or above the nebari area. With 20 I'd suggest experimenting a bit. Maybe do the CD thing with some and other's just plant them and work on the roots each year. good luck!

 

[berobinson82]

I'm not familiar with the technique, would it require raffia low and perhaps a spacer higher up to keep some space between trunks?

 

[berobinson82]

I think you should be working on the roots during each time you repot them. That's how you make good nebari. Every time you repot, comb the roots outward, uncross tangled roots, get rid of one's that are growing too high on the trunk or above the nebari area. With 20 I'd suggest experimenting a bit. Maybe do the CD thing with some and other's just plant them and work on the roots each year. good luck!

I can't remember where but someone suggested planting whips in a PVC pipe to grow long roots suitable to drape over a rock. Perhaps 2 of them will suffer that fate. Also, I definitely don't want to limit options.

 

[MACH5]

A few ways to do this. Here are a couple of links that may be helpful. One of them is from Al's site.

https://bonsaial.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/clump-style/

http://www.buffalobonsaisociety.com/ClumpStyleBonsai.html

http://teri-gonewalkabout.blogspot.com/2010/05/bonsai-class-kabudachi-maple.html

 

[yenling83]

If it's not too late put some movement into the trunks using aluminum. Experiment with different types of movement as well. From what I've seen and experienced good field growing usually involves some weeding out at certain points along the road-I guess that all depends on your goals. But say you start with 20 now, you may want to get rid of 10 in 5 years, then another 5 years sell a couple and keep the best few or something like that. PVC Pipe might work, but make sure to get enough width, or you could just find any type of deep plastic container and use that, depends on the stone your putting the trees on and how high the tree will be on the stone. IMO it seems difficult to find really cool stones in the US. They are definitely in the US, i've just seen alot of crappy rocks under trees. Here's some inspiration for you, pics I took from my recent trip to Japan. Soon I should have more on my blog if you are interested.

 

[berobinson82]

A few ways to do this. Here are a couple of links that may be helpful. One of them is from Al's site.

https://bonsaial.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/clump-style/

http://www.buffalobonsaisociety.com/ClumpStyleBonsai.html

http://teri-gonewalkabout.blogspot.com/2010/05/bonsai-class-kabudachi-maple.html

Awesome links! Thank you very kindly!

 

[berobinson82]

If it's not too late put some movement into the trunks using aluminum. Experiment with different types of movement as well. From what I've seen and experienced good field growing usually involves some weeding out at certain points along the road-I guess that all depends on your goals. But say you start with 20 now, you may want to get rid of 10 in 5 years, then another 5 years sell a couple and keep the best few or something like that. PVC Pipe might work, but make sure to get enough width, or you could just find any type of deep plastic container and use that, depends on the stone your putting the trees on and how high the tree will be on the stone. IMO it seems difficult to find really cool stones in the US. They are definitely in the US, i've just seen alot of crappy rocks under trees. Here's some inspiration for you, pics I took from my recent trip to Japan. Soon I should have more on my blog if you are interested.

I certainly don't think I'll end up keeping all 20. It'd be nice to sell a few in a good 5 years. Maybe 10. I got the idea from Al actually. To keep more trunks growing than you want to care for. The purpose being I can pick and choose what stays in my collection and the ground can pay for some nicer stock. Why not use a few square yards to make bonsai self sustaining? *shrug*

The trunks are about pencil thin. Some of them have some decent movement low also.

As far as rocks go, it's really tough. I got a tip to try out aquarium stores but haven't found anything great just yet. Turns out that neat lace rock is neat to other people too... go figure. I have a couple decent pieces I picked up from the closest bonsai nursery to me. My son claimed one as a "dragon bone". Might be a fight to get it back but I'm way bigger than he is.

Lastly, I see every one of your blog posts. Looks like it was one hell of a trip![/QUOTE]

 

[johng]

I just planted 50 through cds, large washers, and boards with hole(s) drilled... A couple tips...don't let them all come straight up through..lean them at an angle...then you can chop low later and get that nice movement at the base that so many trees lack... Put multiple seedling through the same cd to start to some clump style... I did wire a few of mine...

I posted recently about a trident that was grown this way since Spring of 2010...4 growing seasons...trunk is more than 3" at the waste and the root spread more like 12".

 

[berobinson82]

I just planted 50 through cds, large washers, and boards with hole(s) drilled... A couple tips...don't let them all come straight up through..lean them at an angle...then you can chop low later and get that nice movement at the base that so many trees lack... Put multiple seedling through the same cd to start to some clump style... I did wire a few of mine...

I posted recently about a trident that was grown this way since Spring of 2010...4 growing seasons...trunk is more than 3" at the waste and the root spread more like 12".

Thanks for the reply John! Planting at an angle sounds like and excellent idea. Was that post the one where your tree came from seed in 1956 or so? Or should I be searching for another thread?

I did find this:

This guy is great.

 

[sikadelic]

Is it just me or is John talking in slow mo in berob's embedded video up there?

 

[Paulpash]

Yes but... I would not worry about it for now. I would gather more than you might need. This will help in getting your base thicker and provide more design choices later on specially if some die in the process.

I am doing this with a bunch of Japanese white beech this spring.

Japanese Beech are very slow to callus Mach. Do you know of someone who has had previous success before with this technique?

 

[johng]

Thanks for the reply John! Planting at an angle sounds like and excellent idea. Was that post the one where your tree came from seed in 1956 or so? Or should I be searching for another thread?

I did find this:

This guy is great.

That is the video where I started this tree...
http://www.bonsainut.com/index.php?...-trident-grown-from-a-seed.18300/#post-246932

 

[MACH5]

Japanese Beech are very slow to callus Mach. Do you know of someone who has had previous success before with this technique?

Yes I am aware Marie. It's a long term project. I don't know anyone at the moment. I am creating a twin trunk with a relatively uncommon European beech with small rounded leaves, fagus rotundifolia. Slow growing but after three years the two trunks have fused. Now I want to create a clump with white beech. We will see.

 

[sorce]

Is it just me or is John talking in slow mo in berob's embedded video up there?

Just that southern drawl!

The planting at an angle.....
Another aha moment !

Thanks John!

Sorce

 

[sorce]

I couldn't help it..........

20 whips, whips on 20's.


Some funny found. .......

And I don't know why this popped up too but.......
What a double trunk kerplunk!

Sorce