21st century kids

just.wing.it

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Well that’s two things we can definitely agree on :)
The truth is.....there are more things that we could agree on than not....and thats true for most of us.

Its just that sometimes the differences get amplified and drown out the commonalities.

I do respect you for being willing to say anything....we don't need to agree with each other to learn from each other, nor respect each other.

There was a time in American history when Liberals said, "I may not agree with what you say, but I'd fight to the death for your right to say it."
 

Woocash

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The truth is.....there are more things that we could agree on than not....and thats true for most of us.

Its just that sometimes the differences get amplified and drown out the commonalities.

I do respect you for being willing to say anything....we don't need to agree with each other to learn from each other, nor respect each other.

There was a time in American history when Liberals said, "I may not agree with what you say, but I'd fight to the death for your right to say it."
Well said.

That’s why I like to debate. Not just to have a go at people or trade insults, but to understand other viewpoints and how people arrive at them. It’s rarely ever personal, even if someone’s opinion makes me want to pull my hair out. We’re both here on this pretty niche forum for starters...

I mean, your wrong, but it’s not you that has to change ;)
 

leatherback

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Of course, fake news, data-manipulation etcetc. But interesting information..
 

Orion_metalhead

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21st Century Kids... they are so used to being in this pseudo-social environment they are generally unable to distance themselves and create individual opinions. I blame a large portion of the current 'climate of extremes on every subject ever' on this tendency. Everyone gets an opinion but no one wants to acknowledge that fact lies somewhere in the middle on most things. Its not popular to compromise, accept someone else's input, act generally appreciative of other experiences...

It's why I deleted all my social media, have given up as much technology as possible, and stick to my self. Everyone is out there with their streaming music services and instant gratification. Im fine with my 1981 Vardis promo LPs out of garage sale used bins and cassette tapes. This current group of youth have missed a lot about what makes life interesting and unique and filled it with doing things to not feel left out. I got to concerts and see people spending more time looking through their phone at a band so they can show their friends they were there, while simultaneously not knowing where they are or what they are doing. Reality is very confused for these kids.

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MichaelS

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@AlainK Dear Alain,
I believe you to be way over your head on this subject but I will give you the benefit of the doubt (again) and let you submit your scientific argument regarding climate change, the psychology of the protesters, and anything else you may want to include to convince me you have even the slightest idea what you are talking about. Please be patient awaiting a response as we are on different time zones. In the mean time I will leave you with this one thought. ''He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that''
Good luck to you.
 

Woocash

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21st Century Kids... they are so used to being in this pseudo-social environment they are generally unable to distance themselves and create individual opinions. I blame a large portion of the current 'climate of extremes on every subject ever' on this tendency. Everyone gets an opinion but no one wants to acknowledge that fact lies somewhere in the middle on most things. Its not popular to compromise, accept someone else's input, act generally appreciative of other experiences...

It's why I deleted all my social media, have given up as much technology as possible, and stick to my self. Everyone is out there with their streaming music services and instant gratification. Im fine with my 1981 Vardis promo LPs out of garage sale used bins and cassette tapes. This current group of youth have missed a lot about what makes life interesting and unique and filled it with doing things to not feel left out. I got to concerts and see people spending more time looking through their phone at a band so they can show their friends they were there, while simultaneously not knowing where they are or what they are doing. Reality is very confused for these kids.
Could not agree more. There is always such a playing off of sides against each other. Media outlets breed division, because heaven forbid people should stand together. A united people will notice how badly the people in charge are doing, instead of blaming each other. We live in a world of absolutes (generally) and this is not good for peace and understanding.

My girlfriend was watching a program the other day where a UK family went and stayed in Namibia (culture shock, yadda, yadda, yadda), but while they were driving through the bush past a herd of elephants, the teenage daughter wouldn’t even look up away from her phone. I was incredulous. I think that whilst the world has figuratively gotten smaller, a persons own bubble has too, when it should be getting so much bigger. People take their world around with them in their pocket, or hand. We can go anywhere, do anything, but is all with the proviso of telling everyone how good it is where you are by viewing it through a screen. I went to Iceland in the summer for the first time and we went on a tour of the ‘golden triangle’ At one point there is a waterfall there, called Gulfoss, made entirely of glacial water and there was just a line of people right around the edge with phones in the air, pointed at themselves with an obscure load of water in the background. I thought about taking a picture myself, but the irony was not lost on me. I tend to stay away from large crowds so this was quite the eye opener, to say the least and if this is how the next generation will treat the world, as a giant instagram hit, then I don’t hold out much hope for a change in respect for it.
 

Cattwooduk

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I mostly agree about everyone having their face glued to their phones, but when it comes to taking pictures of themselves at scenic spots or festivals or on holiday etc... people and their families have been taking pictures of themselves at these kinds of places for decades. The only difference is it is way easier now, so instead of having maybe one family member with a good camera and a roll of film, finding someone nearby to take the shot, now everyone has that device in their pocket and it takes seconds. My grandparents have travelled all over the world and have literally piles of photo albums of them with the family all over the place. The difference is the value placed on those pictures.
The main problem being before the fact they weren't so cheap and easy to produce meant taking one good shot and getting it developed for the album, now people take 10 pictures in a second and want to show off the photos on social media.
 

Woocash

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True, but the point is do they have any notion of what is going on around them or is it all part of a personal bubble mentality? Even say, 15 years ago when I was 20 my friends and I obviously took the odd picture to remember or as a keepsake, if you will, but now it seems like there is a generation trying to be defined by where they are or how they look rather than actually understanding or appreciating their surroundings. It’s all part of a self publicity culture and that cant be good for anyone or anything moving forward.
 

MichaelS

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"Cattwooduk, post: 687157, member: 20965"]

yet clearly we are on an upward trend away from the hundreds of thousands of years of up and down pattern.

What does this mean?

Now the evidence is saying the changeswe have made at increasing rates for the last 250 years is bad,

What evidence? (and I refer here to ''bad'' from increasing levels of co2 - (global warming in other words) not contamination, pollution, deforestation etc)
For example, what is the optimum average global temperature?
 

Woocash

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For example said:
It’s the average temperature increase which is the problem. Google 1.5 degree increase, then 2 degree increase. We’re nearly at 1.5, as far as I am aware.
 

Anthony

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Yes @Orion_metalhead

went back to lps and now looking for a cassette recorder.
Even though the homes here are solar powered
Also still have the land line telephone.
Pick and choose.
Still a normal t.v. no flat screen / high def.
Good Day
Anthony
 

Cattwooduk

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What does this mean?



What evidence? (and I refer here to ''bad'' from increasing levels of co2 - (global warming in other words) not contamination, pollution, deforestation etc)
For example, what is the optimum average global temperature?

It means that in the CO2 records which have been referred to by other sceptics here and have used as evidence to prove their own arguments, those records show the natural (Gaia?) cycles of CO2 up and down between approximately 175ppm to approx 300ppm in the atmosphere.
We have moved away from that fluctuating course which has been established for at least 800,000 years, and jumped to 400ppm atmospheric CO2 in a century.

I'm gonna take a guess at your second question, you're asking why global warming due to CO2 increase is bad?
There's a whole number of ways that it will have a negative impact on not just humanity but MOST species on earth. I guess the first ones springing to mind is rising sea levels if you want to use the estimations of JUST Greenlands land-ice melting which could raise sea levels by 7m. I know that isn't necessarily expected to happen in the next hundred or hundreds of years, but that alone would displace millions of people. This again, in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing if we are prepared for it, but how do we prepare for it if governments and societies just ignore the warnings and say f**k it it's a natural cycle. Even if it IS a completely natural cycle, that doesn't refute the fact change is necessary.

The fact humanity relies on only about 50 different crop types for 90% of its calories, protein and fat... if those crops aren't modified and the areas they are grown is negatively impacted by flooding or drought, that's putting serious strain on food supplies globally. You only need to look at one bad years harvest and see how much it impacts the prices of staples like bread and rice the following year to see how it could cause major fallout if year on year crops are diminishing.

Ironically the whole start of this discussion was not just about climate change in terms of global warming and CO2, it's about how humanity is behaving as stewards of our planet. Movements like extinction rebellion aren't just trying to force change on CO2 emissions, they're trying to halt things like millions of tonnes of single use products ending up in the seas, rivers and ultimately our own food supply chains.
Stop insane amounts of pollution being dumped into waterways, unbelievable amounts of toxins bellowed into the air we breathe and so on... why would anyone even consider saying that's a dumb thing to protest against?
Halting biodiversity loss - it's incomprehensible to me that some people can't see our place in the world as being inextricably linked to the natural world around us, and not wanting to actively prevent thousands of species becoming extinct as it will inevitably have huge repercussions for us.
Even the way we farm things has moved to areas you can see from space being single crop area which are virtually barren of all other life, relying on intensive fertilisation and irrigation. That land gets consistently poorer, It's unsustainable. Deforesting millions of acres of woodland and forests, clearing out countless species and using the land to produce ONE crop and ONE species... I don't understand why anyone thinks it's in our interest in either the short or long term?

Put it this way then.
If you look past the 'global warming' and lets all just for a minute pretend it doesn't exist in anyone's mind at all... why do you disagree with the other things they are campaigning for? Cleaner air, cleaner water, preventing ecological damage and species loss, more sustainable farming practices, energy production that doesn't produce pollution, not dumping pollution into the water and air. What argument would you make against any of these things that are in everyone's interest?
 

AlainK

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Halting biodiversity loss - it's incomprehensible to me that some people can't see our place in the world as being inextricably linked to the natural world around us, and not wanting to actively prevent thousands of species becoming extinct as it will inevitably have huge repercussions for us.

So true that when some reproach me with using words like "ignorants", I feel like calling them criminals, which is actually a more appropriate term...
 

Anthony

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Now you ask yourself, those fascinated by Today's Techology,
what would they have done in say, the 1800'S ?

As I understand it, these are repeating cycles.
Good Day
Anthony
 
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