4 year old JBP styling advice

Fi5ch

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I have let this JBP grow unchecked for 4 years and plan to trim the roots soon for the first time and move into a shallower pot. The bark looks great and it is starting to backbud, but the base is still only 1" wide. To thicken the trunk should I trim/remove any branches or allow it to grow unchecked for another few years?

IMG_3637.jpgIMG_3636.jpg
 

LuZiKui

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Most of the people that are still trying to thicken the trunks on JBP will use pond baskets. I'd look to get it into a pond basket with some good bonsai soil (boons mix or something like that) before you move it into a shallower pot. Basically it air prunes the roots. When the roots hit the side of the container and are exposed to air, the tip dies and it promotes back budding on the root. This will give you denser roots that will promote more vigorous growth. With the bonsai soil you are also able to fertilize more strategically/aggressively which helps promote growth too.

I'm a newbie to bonsai and JBP but I've found Eric's Bonsaify videos to be an incredible resource (search Youtube for Bonsaify). Also, this thread has been sort of the holy grail for me as far as planning out my JBPs:


Also Jonas over at Bonsai Tonight has some incredible stuff that is easy to digest for beginners and super helpful. Just google "Bonsai Tonight Japanese black pine" and dive in there.

You'll probably want to leave everything you have for now, move it to the new pot and give it a year or 2 of full growth to thicken the trunk. Depending on your final goal you'll probably end up using those couple branches on the very bottom of the trunk as your final design and the whole top part will be chopped off as a sacrificial leader. Looks healthy though so good start!
 

Shibui

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JBP unpruned for 4 years is asking for trouble. Pines don't bud well on bare wood so you'll essentially be restricted to styling with existing branches.
At trunk 1" thick I make the lowest shoot around 8-10" from the ground and the first real branches at nearly 2'
Have you thought about what style you'll try for with the first branches that high up?

Thickening pine trunks is usually achieved with sacrifice branches but at the same time we need to maintain some lower branches that can be used to grow and shape the final bonsai. Luckily you do have that lower shoot so don't lose it!
To encourage that vital low shoot you may have to prune some of the upper shoots. Even if that slows growth temporarily it's better to take a couple more years than never achieve anything with the tree.

Takes a long time to explain all the ins and outs of developing good pine bonsai stock. Check some of the posts from @River's Edge for good info.
 

Potawatomi13

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Fortunate to have lower branch. Problem of boringly straight trunk below remains. Fortunately cures exist;). Ground grow, grow box or grow bag in ground for trunk size.
 

River's Edge

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I have let this JBP grow unchecked for 4 years and plan to trim the roots soon for the first time and move into a shallower pot. The bark looks great and it is starting to backbud, but the base is still only 1" wide. To thicken the trunk should I trim/remove any branches or allow it to grow unchecked for another few years?

View attachment 424959View attachment 424958
There are a number of observations that should be shared at this point.
1. The tree is planted in such a way that it will cause considerable problems with the root ball formation long term. ( roots primarily on one side)
2. The trunk should be wired to create some movement in the lower portion while it is still possible.
3. Trunk thickening is primarily attained through apical leaders extending, not as much by sacrifice branches.
4. Some cut back is required in the next two or three years in order to begin back budding that will provide shoots for lower branching.
5. Be very careful to retain all lower buds and needles for as long as possible they will aid significantly in fostering further growth lower down in the trunk.

If this tree arrived in this condition in my care I would take the following steps.

1. Repot to determine how best to spread out and improve the root structure. I would select a wider but shallower container to grow out the tree while it is recovering from the repot. But leave it in a container until a basic root ball bonsai structure is formed and strengthened. Good approximate size is 5-6 inches deep and 14 to 16 inches square or round.
2. After the tree recovers from the repot ( end of this growing season) I would wire the trunk and create some movement in the lower portion. Easily done with #6 or #4 gauge copper wire at this stage of growth. There are a variety of methods and bending tools that can assist with this task. JBP with a trunk size of 1 inch is easily bendable with the proper approach.
3. Once the tree has recovered from the wiring and the root ball is well established then you could consider planting in the ground or grow bed. It is possible to continue with container growth and get a nice thick trunk. It will take a bit longer but there are advantages to continuing with a container.
The advantages are as follows.
1. It is easier to repot and continue to work on root structure while developing the tree.
2. It is easier to rotate and develop all sides of the tree. This is particularly useful to encourage back budding in certain locations.
3. It is easier to prune and wire on the bench rather than lay on the ground or stoop over to accomplish the same.
4. It is easier to judge your developmental work on a turntable rather than scoot around the tree while laying on your belly.
5. For many climates, container growth allows for protection within climatic limitations. such as too much rain, or too cold for JBP over winter.
6. Not all locations have suitable ground growing soil for JBP.
Some observations for your consideration.
Best in Bonsai
 

rollwithak

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I have a similar thread going where I’ve let my tree grow in a pot much too deep for bonsai. I’ve done one cutback a couple years ago and got some pretty good back-budding from it. I’ve continued to let it grow and lean since it’s too thick at the bottom now to bend it. In my opinion, it’s not like this tree is the perfect specimen, so if you’re just learning, have fun with it and experiment and use it as a learning experience. Take peoples advice on here and enjoy! Good luck!

 

Fi5ch

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The lowest real branches are 18" from the base and the 2 shoots (pictured below) are 6" from the base. I will build a grow box and repot next week; growing in the ground is not a viable choice for me and I really like the flexibility of a container. On the positive side the tree is very healthy and vigorous. Am I correct that I should not cut any branches until next spring after repot and wiring?
IMG_3646.jpg
 

rollwithak

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The lowest real branches are 18" from the base and the 2 shoots (pictured below) are 6" from the base. I will build a grow box and repot next week; growing in the ground is not a viable choice for me and I really like the flexibility of a container. On the positive side the tree is very healthy and vigorous. Am I correct that I should not cut any branches until next spring after repot and wiring?
View attachment 425231
Are you going to repot now? I wouldn’t repot and chop at the same time next spring if that’s what you meant???
 

Fi5ch

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Correct, I will trim the roots, repot into a 16"x16" grow box and let it grow/recover until next fall or spring before trimming any branches. Pics of the rootball are below.IMG_3651.jpgIMG_3654.jpg
 

JesusFreak

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JBP unpruned for 4 years is asking for trouble. Pines don't bud well on bare wood so you'll essentially be restricted to styling with existing branches.
At trunk 1" thick I make the lowest shoot around 8-10" from the ground and the first real branches at nearly 2'
Have you thought about what style you'll try for with the first branches that high up?

Thickening pine trunks is usually achieved with sacrifice branches but at the same time we need to maintain some lower branches that can be used to grow and shape the final bonsai. Luckily you do have that lower shoot so don't lose it!
To encourage that vital low shoot you may have to prune some of the upper shoots. Even if that slows growth temporarily it's better to take a couple more years than never achieve anything with the tree.

Takes a long time to explain all the ins and outs of developing good pine bonsai stock. Check some of the posts from @River's Edge for good info.
What if one was to want a taller bonsai? Say 3-4ft tall with the more naturalistic look.
 

Shibui

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What if one was to want a taller bonsai? Say 3-4ft tall with the more naturalistic look.
Not sure what the question is asking?
You want a taller bonsai just grow it taller but even taller bonsai need trunk taper to look good (unless literati style)
Taller pine bonsai just allows more opportunity to use multiple sacrifice branches.
Taller bonsai usually also means larger pot, more soil and commensurate increase in weight. You may have a young, healthy back now but that won't last for ever. Maybe you have a team of friends who will help with repotting? If your taller bonsai looks real good you may want to take it to a show. Now you need a van to move it to the show. Your taller bonsai will have many growing tips. Decandle each one every summer. Pull all the needles each fall. Wire every tiny branch every few years to keep it looking good.
Maybe big pine bonsai look great but are you up to the work and logistics of maintenance?
 
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