40+ yr old Evergreen Azalea Yamadori, tips for transplant?

[Rivka]

I'm getting a crack and saving a neighbors 40-60 year old Azalea.
It a large bush, which clearly will be heavily pruned, and multi-trunked, which could be good or bad, time will tell.

Looking for any specific tips and tricks as i go to dig this monster out. I have a number of large scale yamadori, its sort of my favorite things to work with, so the massive dig is not an issue for me.

but a few questions:

1- it's budding now, I'm fine with that I'm going to lose most if not all the flowers this year to the needed pruning, any reason not to cut them all off to preserve plant energy?
(i will leave 2 or 3 somewhere if I can, only to get a look at the flowers' size and color for future reference

2- I read that these back bud well, is there any common sense limits I need to keep in mind? like does it need me to leave one section alone to feed the others for the first season, or is it better to do a full chop and force it to bud out? Do I need to leave some leaves on each branch?
if I can do a full trunk chop this year, any issue with doing it now while its in the ground and held nice and stable, and then dig it out? Seems like this order of operations would be a good way to protect the roots during the shaking and movement of the hard pruning.

3- when pruning, do azalea tend to die back, if so should i to my cuts a little long and carve back the deadwood later? Or are the cuts stable for the most part and I should I cut now pretty close to where I think i will want it long term?

4- what size relative to the plant should i aim for as the initial rootball?
recommended? needed? what's overkill? i would love to save myself 3 days of digging.

any more tips, words of warning, words of encouragement? this is going to be a tiring few days for sure, wish me well!

 

[Rivka]

uggg bummed out i can't edit or delete and start fresh, a lot changed in a few hours!

Well, I was told it had to go today, or it was getting cut down, so I worked all afternoon and I'm pretty darn happy with the outcome. Trunk was even more interesting than first glance had alluded too and it came out really easy once I trimmed the branches back, it was 5 feet tall!

sawed thru 3 large roots, but got to keep everything else. roots were soso, the soil had poor drainage for sure, very high in organic material and more clay than one would prefer.

a few fun things i discovered:
it has fused back to itself in a number of spots, looks really cool.
there was so much leaf matter trapped in the internal branches that the plant had air layered naturally in a few spots
(i have cut those off and planted them up for fun)

now for some pictures.

 

[j evans]

Looking forward to some photos, lets see!

 

[Rivka]

the crown of the plant was actually many inches underground from decades of leaf duff, even after I scooped away the last year or two that was not decomposed yet, there were inches still to go.

happily, I only had to cut 3 roots when transplanting it, and only had to trim one of those back another 2 inches to have it slide perfectly into a bin I had available.
a quick once over with a large drill bit and drainage was added and we have a good sturdy pot for the season. angles were picked, props were made and everything was tied down snugly

Some obvious branches were taken off, though clearly I have still have a ways to go. I wanted to come back tomorrow with fresh eyes and not a stiff neck and sit with it before I make any more choices.
The last two close up pictures here show very cool spots where the trucks have completely fused with one another, there are about 6 spots on the plant like this,
some stunning, others just interesting, a few will likely be removed as they are not in good spots



Where I left things for the day, lots more to do, and some branches are just being left on so I get to see it flower a tiny bit this year and see what they look like color and size-wise.
The dark "hole" you see in the base of the left section is a fill pass-thru created by the lowest truck fusion. I adore it.

 

[Shibui]

Good news is that these are generally very hardy.
you can chop trunks back as far as you like and new shoots will grow even on very old wood.
They need very few roots to survive. Roots appear to regenerate just as well as the trunks bud up.
I've dug azaleas at all times of the year and all seem to survive, even mid summer collections.
Many growers are adamant that larger cuts need to be sealed but I have not found significant dieback after pruning even if cuts are not sealed.

The buried crown seems to be a consistent factor with azaleas. i thought maybe the original plants had been planted deep but maybe it is just a buildup of decomposing leaves, etc trapped in all the trunks that azaleas love to grow.

Your tree has plenty to work with. i would leave it at that for this year and see how things develop. Some of my collected azaleas have grown really well after collection and ready for work the following year. Others are slow to root and need a couple of years before doing anything.

 

[CWTurner]

Very good collecting. I'm jealous, though I have too many as it is.
Start chopping in lower!
CW

 

[j evans]

Nice find & good work.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I'm getting a crack and saving a neighbors 40-60 year old Azalea.
It a large bush, which clearly will be heavily pruned, and multi-trunked, which could be good or bad, time will tell.

Looking for any specific tips and tricks as i go to dig this monster out. I have a number of large scale yamadori, its sort of my favorite things to work with, so the massive dig is not an issue for me.

but a few questions:

1- it's budding now, I'm fine with that I'm going to lose most if not all the flowers this year to the needed pruning, any reason not to cut them all off to preserve plant energy?
(i will leave 2 or 3 somewhere if I can, only to get a look at the flowers' size and color for future reference

Cutting buds off after the buds have formed really does not save the azalea much energy. The energy to make the bud, was expended in the previous late summer early autumn. Pruning buds to "save energy" is more a myth than reality. You do save some energy, but not as much as the ones who harp about doing so would think. Key is to not allow flowers to hang on for weeks, and begin to form seed pods. Producing seed demands a lot of energy. So cutting buds, does prevent any energy going into trying to form seed. In that regard it is helpful. I always keep a few flowers, otherwise I would raise boxwood or junipers. Flowers are the whole point of azalea.

2- I read that these back bud well, is there any common sense limits I need to keep in mind? like does it need me to leave one section alone to feed the others for the first season, or is it better to do a full chop and force it to bud out? Do I need to leave some leaves on each branch?
if I can do a full trunk chop this year, any issue with doing it now while its in the ground and held nice and stable, and then dig it out? Seems like this order of operations would be a good way to protect the roots during the shaking and movement of the hard pruning.

I get the best back budding when I pretty much cut back to a leafless stump. I have problems when parts of the tree still have growing apexes, and parts are leafless. Then energy goes to the part with the leaves. It is often better to go totally leafless or keep some leaves everywhere. If half has leaves and half does not, the leafless half will not respond with vigor, or possibly even just die.

3- when pruning, do azalea tend to die back, if so should i to my cuts a little long and carve back the deadwood later? Or are the cuts stable for the most part and I should I cut now pretty close to where I think i will want it long term?

I use the orange liquid cut paste, supposedly it has some antibiotic effect. I if you don't use cut paste you might get some die back, or you might not. Remember, cut flush, do not gouge into the trunk. The azalea bark will not roll over or heal gouges into the wood of a trunk or branch. If in doubt, leave a stub, come back a later to carve to flush. NO gouges. I ruined a nice azalea leaving a gouge that then "ran" and slowly killed off half the trunk.

4- what size relative to the plant should i aim for as the initial rootball?
recommended? needed? what's overkill? i would love to save myself 3 days of digging. I'd go pretty small. You can be pretty severe with azalea roots.

any more tips, words of warning, words of encouragement? this is going to be a tiring few days for sure, wish me well!

Nice haul. I would shorten up those long branches much more, unless of course you see them being part of the final design. To my eye, they need to be shortened much more, do it now.
Great tree, keep us posted

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

That branch you left a lot of leaves on, I would remove most if not all the growing ends. Okay, keep 2 flowers buds. But get rid of the rest of the green. You want the back budding to be balanced over the tree, that branch with leaves is exerting dominance, and will retard or prevent its near neighbors from back budding.

 

[Rivka]

wow thanks Leo for taking the time to respond with such useful info!! will update again, after I give it another once over

 

[Mike Corazzi]

The movement in the right side is so cool that it could stun me into inaction trying to decide if I wanted anything from the bundle of sticks on the left.
I'm kinda glad it's yours as I think I might get the vapors and expire from brain freeze.

 

[Maloghurst]

Nice find that base has some definite potential.
I’m curious @Leo in N E Illinois and @Shibui why if these are so hardy that he should not cut all this junk off or even lower. Seems like a waste of time and energy for the plant to keep all this when it will never be part of the design. If he gets buds all over these trunks that then have to be cut off next year or the year after anyway further weakening the tree.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

????????

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Nice find that base has some definite potential.
I’m curious @Leo in N E Illinois and @Shibui why if these are so hardy that he should not cut all this junk off or even lower. Seems like a waste of time and energy for the plant to keep all this when it will never be part of the design. If he gets buds all over these trunks that then have to be cut off next year or the year after anyway further weakening the tree.
View attachment 295302

In post #8 I did suggest to cut those branches shorter. Your line is give or take a little, more or less where I would cut. I would not make them the same length, the thickest would leave longer than the thinnest. But I would cut it short.

But it is not my tree, I said suggested shortening the branches once. If @Rivka has a plan requiring longer trunks, that is up to her. I would certainly make them shorter, though I would take pains to vary the lengths of the branches. But your red arc is more or less the average of where I would cut to.

 

[Rivka]

I sat all half the day yesterday next to it working on other things and just watching and listening to it, may sound silly but it seems to have a lot to "say".
Trimmed a lot of things off and got a lot better look at what was left which helped clarify things.
Seems like the dominant feature of interest (when not in bloom) is the fuse points on numerous branches, so I would love a final form that allowed that feature to shine.
It had 4 strong fused points left and one that is starting (the very highest one marked in the picture) but it just may be too high up to be a part of a good design.
Beyond that, this is clearly some type of windswept form and quite lovely.
There are 3 sections that I see in the form,
the longest largest, which is actually the 2 branches, quiet windswept, that fuse to each other in 3 points along their length,
the medium section, more upright and very curvy, which has one fusion back to itself
and the small section which is in the bottom left of this picture and is a nicely scooped very low laying visual counterbalance, it also has the cool warty bark that these seem to get from their time spend under decades of decomposing leaf duff.

Fuse points are marked in yellow, parts that are likely still to be removed sooner than later are darkened showing the branches that seem important to the main form

 

[Rivka]

The second option is aimed at removing the overly straight section that I crossed out in red, it would likely annoy me unless I could hide it with foliage.
it gives up the top 2 fused sections to accomplish this and a lower overall height.

 

[Potawatomi13]

I'm getting a crack

What is that please?

What advice? You already did the job. Also unless in china or mountains this is not Yamadori. However does have good beginnings for great Bonsai.

In last picture just below orange mark on Rt side consider removing straight section between mark and base once well astablished.

 

[Shibui]

If he gets buds all over these trunks that then have to be cut off next year or the year after anyway further weakening the tree.

When you start with a false premise all your conclusions from there are also likely to be false.
Allowing the azalea to have plenty of branches will also allow plenty of leaves on the tree for the recovery period - 1 or 2 years. Having more leaves will strengthen the remaining trunks and roots rather than weaken it. When the next reduction takes place the tree should respond strongly.

 

[Rivka]

What is that please?

i meant I'm getting a crack *at* saving a tree, but the editing window had expired before i notices the typo

What advice? You already did the job.

well if you notice the thread started a while ago and I actually wrote even earlier, but it took a while to be posted because it was my first thread, so it was held for approval. and if you read my second post, you will see I had to move on the job or lose my chance. Since the edit window is so very short on this forum, the title and main post is clearly out of date.

Also unless in china or mountains this is not Yamadori. However does have good beginnings for great Bonsai.

oh excuse me, "Urbandori" you better with that?

In last picture just below orange mark on Rt side consider removing straight section between mark and base once well astablished.

thanks for the suggestion, but in person, it's less straight than it appears from this one picture and it is actually fused back to itself which is quite cool looking. though I will keep that in mind and have a look at it again with that in mind and see what it feels like.

 

[Rivka]

Nice find that base has some definite potential.
Seems like a waste of time and energy for the plant to keep all this when it will never be part of the design. If he gets buds all over these trunks that then have to be cut off next year or the year after anyway further weakening the tree.

Never? that's pretty declarative for someone who has not seen a tree in person. As it stands I can see 3 or 4 directions to take this tree, and would rather not burn any bridges/branches too soon. Pruning later will certainly not hamper a tree, think of how many times we leave a lower branch on just to thicken a trunk.

P.S. I'm a her last time I checked