8-9 feet live oak yamadori, need styling thoughts and inputs.

[dresdraconius]

Hello Everyone.

Live from Zone 8a (Dallas, TX)
Someone wanted to get rid of live oak on Craigslist so I dug it up from their yard. It is about 8-9 feet tall from root stock to tip. I loved the trunk and how mature it appears.

Pre yamadori condition- I felt the tree wasn't thriving very well. Tips of branches were all bald and dry. No cambium at all. Trimmed these branches Please see picture where it is still in the ground.

Work done so far- Trimmed tap root off and most of the bigger roots. Left as much fibrous roots as I could. Currently potted with 50%- Pumice, lava and akadama and other 50% sifted hardwood mulch (from trees local to this area). Watering it like crazy for next few months and try to maximize the chances that it will root. Large holes at base of pot for aeration.

Immediate goals- Hoping the transplant wont kill tree and it takes.

Long term goals- Size it down (3-5 feet tall max) with as much resemblance to live oak as possible. I'll start working on increasing ramification next year or so.

From the forum members, I would like to request
1.Styling inputs.
2.When and where to chop, if at all required during next 12 months.
3. Any techniques to encourage budding from lower trunk so tree can appear 'fuller' once the top is chopped.
4. Anything else you want to add.

Disclaimers- Yes, I know this is stupid. I know 99.95% bonsai aren't this big. Please bear in mind, this is just a hobby to me. I am a noob trying to learn. I want to increase my collection of trees but I don't have the means to just go out and throw money on good looking trees. Please keep criticisms civil and if possible constructive.

Your time is much appreciated.

 

[bonsaichile]

If it comes from a yard, it is a "collected" or "dug up" tree. A yamadori is something else...

 

[dresdraconius]

Ah ok. My bad.

 

[Johnathan]

When was it dug up?

 

[dresdraconius]

3 days ago. Potted yesterday.

 

[Mikecheck123]

My constructive criticism is that I would be really hesitant to dig up a sick tree. It's hard enough when they're healthy.

 

[dresdraconius]

My constructive criticism is that I would be really hesitant to dig up a sick tree. It's hard enough when they're healthy.

Yes. True. Since it was a free tree I thought- what's the worst that can happen? If it doesn't take, oh well.

If it takes, then I can experiment with three trunk.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Great tree. And you are NOT crazy. Seriously, you were shopping the right size tree to get a decent diameter trunk for bonsai.

Ideally, an oak tree should have a large diameter trunk relative to the height of the tree. An oak bonsai 24 inches tall should have a trunk that is 4 to 8 inches in diameter at 3 inches above the soil. So you picked up the "right size" tree for a 24 inch tall oak bonsai.

My suggestion, since it was just collected 3 days ago would be to do the drastic pruning now. Prune this oak to roughly 10 to 12 inches tall. The reason is you want low back budding. The top of the tree is not useful and since you already have the trunk caliper you need for bonsai, you don't need any growth above the 8 or so inch mark. Pruning to 10 inches tall will allow for some die back and you should get back budding on the trunk . Do it now, because I do not believe you got enough roots to support the top foliage. Cutting it now will take advantage of the stored carbohydrates in the trunk. If you wait, they will be depleted trying to support the top foliage.

Nice find. Keep us posted on progress.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Yamadori - the term means collected in the mountains, for from the mountains, yama = mountain. A hundred year old bald cypress collected from a wild, undisturbed swamp somewhere in Louisiana technically would not qualify as Yamadori, because it does not come from the mountains. But in Japan, the only wild, untamed, uncultivated areas are in the mountains. There are no lowland wild places of any size.

Strictly it is only applied to trees collected in the mountains, more loosely it is used for trees that originated in nature, and were not ever cultivated by man. So here that 100 year old bald cypress would be called yamadori. A street tree, which originated in a nursery, was then planted in a street parkway, then was collected from there, simply does not qualify as "yamadori". It is just a tree collected from the urban landscape. There are the "joke term", "Urban-adori", and "Suburban-adori" applied in just these situations, but the terms are really nonsense, and are avoided by those that take themselves seriously. Good for humorous story telling, but not scholarly discussion of bonsai.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

If you do the "trunk chop" to 10 inches tall, do use cut paste, or a putty to seal the cut. You want to avoid die back spreading too far down the trunk.

You future tree will probably have all its branches sprout at or below 8 inches above the soil. When you dress the wound a few years from now it will be carved in a way to look natural. Possibly hollowed out, or just smoothed to allow bark to callus over. Duct sealer, as used for residential air duct work, is fine as a substitute for cut paste. Dap window caulk is also usable, gazier's caulk is pretty good.

 

[dresdraconius]

Great tree. And you are NOT crazy. Seriously, you were shopping the right size tree to get a decent diameter trunk for bonsai.

Ideally, an oak tree should have a large diameter trunk relative to the height of the tree. An oak bonsai 24 inches tall should have a trunk that is 4 to 8 inches in diameter at 3 inches above the soil. So you picked up the "right size" tree for a 24 inch tall oak bonsai.

My suggestion, since it was just collected 3 days ago would be to do the drastic pruning now. Prune this oak to roughly 10 to 12 inches tall. The reason is you want low back budding. The top of the tree is not useful and since you already have the trunk caliper you need for bonsai, you don't need any growth above the 8 or so inch mark. Pruning to 10 inches tall will allow for some die back and you should get back budding on the trunk . Do it now, because I do not believe you got enough roots to support the top foliage. Cutting it now will take advantage of the stored carbohydrates in the trunk. If you wait, they will be depleted trying to support the top foliage.

Nice find. Keep us posted on progress.

Thank you so much for the kind words and explanation.

So I measure from where the roots meet the trunk and cut at 12 inches height from that point?

Does the cut need to be horizontal or at a slant?

I'll probably use my chainsaw. Is that ok?

 

[dresdraconius]

Yamadori - the term means collected in the mountains, for from the mountains, yama = mountain. A hundred year old bald cypress collected from a wild, undisturbed swamp somewhere in Louisiana technically would not qualify as Yamadori, because it does not come from the mountains. But in Japan, the only wild, untamed, uncultivated areas are in the mountains. There are no lowland wild places of any size.

Strictly it is only applied to trees collected in the mountains, more loosely it is used for trees that originated in nature, and were not ever cultivated by man. So here that 100 year old bald cypress would be called yamadori. A street tree, which originated in a nursery, was then planted in a street parkway, then was collected from there, simply does not qualify as "yamadori". It is just a tree collected from the urban landscape. There are the "joke term", "Urban-adori", and "Suburban-adori" applied in just these situations, but the terms are really nonsense, and are avoided by those that take themselves seriously. Good for humorous story telling, but not scholarly discussion of bonsai.

Thanks for the information!!

 

[dresdraconius]

If you do the "trunk chop" to 10 inches tall, do use cut paste, or a putty to seal the cut. You want to avoid die back spreading too far down the trunk.

You future tree will probably have all its branches sprout at or below 8 inches above the soil. When you dress the wound a few years from now it will be carved in a way to look natural. Possibly hollowed out, or just smoothed to allow bark to callus over. Duct sealer, as used for residential air duct work, is fine as a substitute for cut paste. Dap window caulk is also usable, gazier's caulk is pretty good.

Believe it or not, I have this. Give me 30 minutes. I'll chop it at 1 foot mark and post pictures. I hope no one tells me later that this was just a prank.
Stay tuned.

 

[dresdraconius]

Ok. Took some courage. But here it is

 

[Johnathan]

Well @Leo in N E Illinois took the words out of my mouth and he more than likely did a better job of explaining why too lol

1 thing I might add would be not to let the substrate dry out completely, and when those new buds start coming out to try your best to baby and protect them until they are thriving.

 

[dresdraconius]

Should I move this thread since it is no longer dai or omono?

 

[dresdraconius]

Well @Leo in N E Illinois took the words out of my mouth and he more than likely did a better job of explaining why too lol

1 thing I might add would be not to let the substrate dry out completely, and when those new buds start coming out to try your best to baby and protect them until they are thriving.

That substrate will be watered atleast 3 to 4 times a day. Thanks for the information.

 

[dresdraconius]

Cut pasted.

 

[Johnathan]

That substrate will be watered atleast 3 to 4 times a day. Thanks for the information.

Don't over water it. It's all about balance. Not to wet. Not to dry. Just right. You want the roots to still have to work... just not to the point where they are exhausted and work themselves to death, or dry out.

 

[Arlithrien]

I'm curious if it will survive. In my experience, live oaks don't like to be moved. I have transplanted smaller ones, about 2 inch trunks, from ground to grow bed, and not had success.